2023 Season General Discussion Thread

[Titanic]

We will start leaking up and comers like JC, as fast as he is losing support, if he continues to misuse players like yesterday. I would rather lose 20 Holbrooks than 1 local kid.

[Bayside Titan]

Like everyone with an interest in the Titans its really disappointing in the results in the past two rounds. These games were there to be won and the good sides would have gone on to win those games. Its particularly difficult for all involved to be reading today how the side chocked and lost against the Dolphins and full credit to the Dolphins and Broncos for winning those games as it has highlighted a worrying trend that could be set, and waekness that other teams can exploit.

So clearly we can score points and in some patches can defend , however its when we take Mo, Tino was Issac off that is where we loose all momentum and this to me is where other team exploit our weekness in two areas. 1. That we interchange the starting players off and the it seems that the reserves tend to look lost or flat and lack explosiveness off the bench. 2. Other teams tip sheets must have a note saying "ride out the Titans wave until the reserves come on " and in the last two games it was clear that this is what the opposition had done. Granted it doesn't help that we are missing 3 key starting forwards in Verrells, Beau and JJ, however this has highlight a key weakness in the roster that we lack impact / experience in "the next man up ". Its clear that we have troops on the way (JTS etc ) , but for us at this period of time we have a weakness area that will hurt us and be exploited by all teams. One example is if we take Liu off and interchange him for Clarke , Clarkes role should then be that of Liu. In the past few games I have noted that Liu is playing a key link role between Foran and Boyd in shifting that ball either side of the ruck , however if Clarke or whoever is coming on for Liu is not filling this role or doing it poorly.

I have felt that we also interchange the players well after they look gassed and so fatigue sets in at mistakes are made in the defence. I attended a High Performance Conference last year and listened to elite athletes ( ie Olymipcs, Para Olympics) , coaches and high performance staff and one key take a way was that success is mostly mindset and having the killer or winning mindset ( Mental toughness) to hang in an execute the plan. Its clear that we have a plan that the Coaching Team want to play and defend but it seems that its not transferring onto the results as yet. So as of today Titans have the 3rd worst defence at 189 points against or 27 points per game on average . https://www.nrl.com/ladder/?competit...=8&season=2023. Given that club has employed Brett White and Dallas Johnstone on the stats alone this is the key performance area that needs improving and I wonder if the rotations and lack of size and experience is components that contribute to this area ??

To end I sense that our bench is to light on size wise . To go into the last game with probably the lightest Bench I could remember us fielding was fraught with danger and ended poorly for us. I ( I love him as a player ) feel that playing Kruise and JC is a waste of a interchange. I sense that playing JC off the Bench is a poor choice and we either start him or let him play Cup..I feel that we need to work on the Bench to get that right as its the primary issue for us on game day along with Defence.

[NZFan]

Nice post BT. One thing that shouldn't be overlooked is that we spent all pre-season talking up our defence but the game plan and game day 17 is always based around attack. Holbrook has to wear that.

The thing that has always annoyed me supporting this club is we seem be content with losing. Except for Tino and a few others in the squad, we are a team that individually finds ways to lose. A lot of it comes down to game awareness but some of it is about attitude. It is time to make some tough calls around these players. I'm going to go on record and say this team would be better for letting go/pushing out the following players:

- Erin Clarke. I was on record right from when we re-signed him that it was a bad decision. He was overhyped on not just this forum, but on most platforms about his fast leg speed with ball in hand. It's true he can carry well at times but he doesn't have the physical presence in defence, lacks a decent passing game and over plays his hand a lot of the time. These types of players are a dime a dozen in NZ and the reason why they don't succeed is predominately because they don't have the natural instinct for the game. The good clubs recognise this in a player, but we have held him up to be something special because other small props/middles at other clubs have excelled in recent seasons.

- Phil Sami. Might seem tough after some of his performances in recent weeks but poor Phil doesn't have the winning instinct that we need. He tries hard I'll give him that, but I think he's a victim of being at a poor club for a long time. There were two plays that really bugged me from Phil in the last game. The first was the no try from Jennings when AJ was competing for the ball. Sami was ball watching and positioned himself in no mans land. He couldn't cover the ball if it was deflected backwards, or was he near the Dolphins players to shut down the play if it deflected to them (which it did). I know that it might not seem like much but the good teams do this and it's largely game instinct rather than something than can be coached. The second was when he jammed on Aitken instead of staying on his winger when Jojo had Aitken covered. That was inexcusable and happened at such a crucial time of the match. If he made that tackle we probably win. I think a stint with a decent club would do wonders for Phil. He's been able to get away with mediocrity for too long. I'd be looking to offload him while his value is high.

Brain Kelly. Similar to Sami he just makes poor decisions at crucial times of the game. Nothing from last weekend really exemplified it but we all know how he can have brain fades. I actually really like Kelly and have long wanted to keep him but he unfortunately he is not a smart player and that's what we sorely need.

Tannah Boyd. I've seen enough to know he's not the future. This may be a contentious opinion but Sextons ceiling is so much higher than Boyds. Other than his goal kicking he actually doesn't do anything well. Sexton was top in the league for forced drop outs last year, how many has Tannah forced this year. Frankly his defence is poor, his long kicking game is well below average and when he plays poor he is awful. For those that sung his praises last year go and re-watch his games. The reason why we were firing was because AJ was at 6 and he was playing well, it had little to do with Tannah. The Warriors game in the last round rivalled his game against the Dragons this year. Tannah would really benefit from a stint in the super league to learn his trade. He can't continue to learn it in the NRL because he simply is not good enough to warrant selection in any NRL team (except for us) at the moment.

Foran. If he is up for a shift to the Super League or something let him go. Last weekend was the primary reason why we bought him and all he did was demonstrate why that was a mistake. All that those two plays from him did was show our young squad what not to do when the going gets tough. If Holbrook had any guts he would make an example out of him and drop him this week. It simply was not good enough.

I know that we are a young squad and it's not going to turn around instantly, but I fear that some of these bad habits from the guys that have been around for a few seasons send the wrong message to our younger players. It tells them that mediocre is acceptable and if we can't change that mindset then we'll forever be facing an uphill battle.

[Titanic]

Can't and won't argue with any of that Kiwi and add that in the NRL "a good big team will always beat a good small team" let alone what we dished-up yesterday.

[Whats Doing]

NZ. I have to strongly disagree that Kelly is a Brain ��������

[The Birdman]

Nice post BT. One thing that shouldn't be overlooked is that we spent all pre-season talking up our defence but the game plan and game day 17 is always based around attack. Holbrook has to wear that.

The thing that has always annoyed me supporting this club is we seem be content with losing. Except for Tino and a few others in the squad, we are a team that individually finds ways to lose. A lot of it comes down to game awareness but some of it is about attitude. It is time to make some tough calls around these players. I'm going to go on record and say this team would be better for letting go/pushing out the following players:

- Erin Clarke. I was on record right from when we re-signed him that it was a bad decision. He was overhyped on not just this forum, but on most platforms about his fast leg speed with ball in hand. It's true he can carry well at times but he doesn't have the physical presence in defence, lacks a decent passing game and over plays his hand a lot of the time. These types of players are a dime a dozen in NZ and the reason why they don't succeed is predominately because they don't have the natural instinct for the game. The good clubs recognise this in a player, but we have held him up to be something special because other small props/middles at other clubs have excelled in recent seasons.

- Phil Sami. Might seem tough after some of his performances in recent weeks but poor Phil doesn't have the winning instinct that we need. He tries hard I'll give him that, but I think he's a victim of being at a poor club for a long time. There were two plays that really bugged me from Phil in the last game. The first was the no try from Jennings when AJ was competing for the ball. Sami was ball watching and positioned himself in no mans land. He couldn't cover the ball if it was deflected backwards, or was he near the Dolphins players to shut down the play if it deflected to them (which it did). I know that it might not seem like much but the good teams do this and it's largely game instinct rather than something than can be coached. The second was when he jammed on Aitken instead of staying on his winger when Jojo had Aitken covered. That was inexcusable and happened at such a crucial time of the match. If he made that tackle we probably win. I think a stint with a decent club would do wonders for Phil. He's been able to get away with mediocrity for too long. I'd be looking to offload him while his value is high.

Brain Kelly. Similar to Sami he just makes poor decisions at crucial times of the game. Nothing from last weekend really exemplified it but we all know how he can have brain fades. I actually really like Kelly and have long wanted to keep him but he unfortunately he is not a smart player and that's what we sorely need.

Tannah Boyd. I've seen enough to know he's not the future. This may be a contentious opinion but Sextons ceiling is so much higher than Boyds. Other than his goal kicking he actually doesn't do anything well. Sexton was top in the league for forced drop outs last year, how many has Tannah forced this year. Frankly his defence is poor, his long kicking game is well below average and when he plays poor he is awful. For those that sung his praises last year go and re-watch his games. The reason why we were firing was because AJ was at 6 and he was playing well, it had little to do with Tannah. The Warriors game in the last round rivalled his game against the Dragons this year. Tannah would really benefit from a stint in the super league to learn his trade. He can't continue to learn it in the NRL because he simply is not good enough to warrant selection in any NRL team (except for us) at the moment.

Foran. If he is up for a shift to the Super League or something let him go. Last weekend was the primary reason why we bought him and all he did was demonstrate why that was a mistake. All that those two plays from him did was show our young squad what not to do when the going gets tough. If Holbrook had any guts he would make an example out of him and drop him this week. It simply was not good enough.

I know that we are a young squad and it's not going to turn around instantly, but I fear that some of these bad habits from the guys that have been around for a few seasons send the wrong message to our younger players. It tells them that mediocre is acceptable and if we can't change that mindset then we'll forever be facing an uphill battle.

Fantastic post, though I think you are being slightly harsh on Sami and a little too complimentary of Sexton, whose lack of acceleration will always hold him back.

[Cowabunga]

So I checked how many times we've lost the second halves under Holbrook and I might be a number or two off but I have us losing 54 out of 77. Most we won was in 2021 under peak Vlandy's ball with 11 out of 25 games but we still lost a fair few of these games.. There were a few draws and stuff that I didn't count as a win.

Last year we won 4 times in second halves and won those games... This year we've done it three times and won those games... Seems like there's a bit of a pattern there and another thing Holbrook isn't seeing or fixing or is just in over his head.

[Hail Sezer]

Can’t really agree some of that post sorry NZF. It’s all good to point out players you don’t like and want to get rid of but unless you’ve got solutions that are cap friendly, available and improving the overall roster then I find it hard to take much from a list like that tbh.

Id suggest watching some of Sexton in Qcup to get a better grasp on his game and that ceiling - and I will say that forced line dropouts are a stat that is often padded for halves that can’t create shape and/or points. Something to think about. If you think Tanah doesn’t do anything well but goal kick then mate I’m sorry but I don’t think you’re looking for the right things, or misunderstanding what an organising halfback is responsible for on the field - a lot of our positives with the ball are because of Tanah. I’m not saying he’s our forever solution but some of the criticism he’s copping is purely because his role is being misunderstood and his value overlooked.

I agree with your summary on BK, though. But I’ve gone on about that enough I’m not adding much repeating it every week lol

I'll add that Clark been disappointing for me too. But he's a low-end salary guy that fills a role. I think he's a roster body but shouldn't be a walk-in to the 17.

[Cowabunga]

Yeah I don't think the players are the issue but there's a couple changes needed, This team is underperforming. The team isn't bad they're just have a few idiots and a coach not telling them the right things to do. Agree on Kelly but Sami a

A miracle might've happened HS because I'm on Tannahs side now. IT wasn't him or Randle that did dumb stuff in our spine and help costs us in games. I'd like to see a bit more variety in Tannahs kicking game but it's so obvious he's been told just to do the same stuff every time with his kicking game whether it's short, long or drop outs. Obviously we want to keep his job easy, but let him have a bit of freedom instead of just bombing everything to the opp 30m, I don't know if his kicking game is great but let him show us or try.

A stat I thought was interesting is we're making the most metres or really close with Panthers, but our defence is horrible still and we're getting our first tackle closest to our line with Souths. There's a lot of red flags that for me, All come down to coaching and we need a new set of eyes.

[lonegull]

Team selections has always been a problem with Holbrook and he use of the bench and his rotations, I have said this before and sometimes I just can’t fathom how some of his decisions are made. He seems a coach who picks and sticks which is good when the team is winning but he seems not to take a risk unless forced to by injury

[Murbahtitan]

I stopped watching after the Titans went to half time 26 to 6 up because I was really worried they’d implode in the second half as they’ve done so many times before. Still, it was very very disappointing. I’ve been a supporter of Holbrook up until now and while I still think he’s got the side’s attack going OK their defence and resolve when things turn against them is non existent. There has to be a change.

Until then I’ll be taking a break from following the Titans. Just too hard, the players we’ve got are a lot better than that.

Over and out

[Boonarga]

Boyd. I must be watching a different guy. His defence has looked good to me.
As for his general play kicks, surely what he's doing out there is under coaches instruction?

[Titanic Believer]

I stopped watching after the Titans went to half time 26 to 6 up because I was really worried they’d implode in the second half as they’ve done so many times before. Still, it was very very disappointing. I’ve been a supporter of Holbrook up until now and while I still think he’s got the side’s attack going OK their defence and resolve when things turn against them is non existent. There has to be a change.

Until then I’ll be taking a break from following the Titans. Just too hard, the players we’ve got are a lot better than that.

Over and out

Ditto to that. I hate being picked up then dropped down. Even when I know it's coming.

[Titanic Believer]

So I checked how many times we've lost the second halves under Holbrook and I might be a number or two off but I have us losing 54 out of 77. Most we won was in 2021 under peak Vlandy's ball with 11 out of 25 games but we still lost a fair few of these games.. There were a few draws and stuff that I didn't count as a win.

Last year we won 4 times in second halves and won those games... This year we've done it three times and won those games... Seems like there's a bit of a pattern there and another thing Holbrook isn't seeing or fixing or is just in over his head.

Wow! Thank you. I now know why I can't watch the second half of games and it's the best argument for a new coach that I've seen. But, I worry whether the turmoil of it would be just too much unless they can get a highly respected coach that the players can buy into his approach.

[Whats Doing]

So the Rabbits can sign Wrighton on a contract worth $900k and still have Latrelll, Walker, Graham, Arrow, Cook and Murray and we could not afford him under the cap. FMD.

Just shows another problem with our club which needs urgent fixing with our roster is still suffering with having overpaid players. Unless this is also fixed we will never be able to compete against the top teams which always are stacked with many representative players