2023 Season General Discussion Thread

[gotitans101_]

Sexton was thrown in the deep end last year after a few NRL games, then expected to run a team for a long season. He needed time no matter what his deficiencies. Not saying he is the same quality but Deardon also had big expectations, didn't live up to them, but now with an experienced half he is killing it. (or at least last year he did, I haven't noticed how he's going this year). Sexton wasn't completely RS last year and with more experience now he should be able to fill a hole till Foran is back....they say the game is a game of redemption.

I'm willing to give him another chance but I don't expect the result to be any different. He's just so slow, it always looks like he's running in quicksand. And he's very predictable. HS has already said he hasn't really stood out so far in QCup either so I don't know why first grade would be any different.

[TitanPremiership]

I agree with this 100% I think you're spot on. Deardon is a good example. People also forget the huge expectation put on Ben Hunt when he came into the NRL. He was killing it in Qcup...but really had a hard time with the step up into the NRL. And now?

Nathan Cleary also struggled when he came up. He's lived it and passed his thoughts on about Toby earlier this year. Remember this article? https://www.titans.com.au/news/2023/...ng-gun-sexton/

I'll back Sexy!

I'm more then happy to give local juniors more time (e.g. AKP as well) than players we've bought in so in that regard so happy to see him get some game time. However, the big difference here is both Hunt and Deardon have a strong running game. It's just not something Sexton can emulate. If they are having an off game they can always fall back on the old "run first" approach and hopefully spark something. For Sexton his game needs to be almost perfect in other areas in order to compensate for this. Hunt and possibly Dearden (haven't watched enough) are also pretty decent defenders, something both our young halves seem to struggle with (another issue with Sexton's lack of speed). I'd love to be proven wrong but I just don't see enough in his game to overcome his shortcomings at the moment.

Hate to say it but I'd actually love to see him head up to Brisbane as Reynolds is probably the best current player he could learn off in regards to getting the best out of his abilities and hopefully becoming a quality NRL 7.

[Whats Doing]

There is talk that with the new concussion rules, that the ARL are proposing having squads of 38 and deleting Development Contracts so that those will be part of the top squad. Will be interesting to see how that pans out

[Cowabunga]

It's going to be needed eventually going to 36 or so but I can't imagine NSWRL or QRL being to happy with it at all. It would diminish the quality potentially in those comps taking out around 30-40 players at least I imagine. With the way they've been doing highlights and trying to push people to QRL tv they need a bit of a kick up the ass compared to how NRL have been handling those things including uploading full games pretty much a day later.

I remember seeing some stuff about V'landys wanting to bring back under 20's. I wonder if the 38 squad members is a way of starting a nationwide reserve comp to cut out NSWRL and QRL. You could add more players on who are on reserve grade contracts to round out those squads with the other top 38 like they do in NSWRL I believe like Bulldogs, Raiders etc..

I actually liked Holbrooks idea after the Cowboys game about the interchange. There's already 6 guys on the bench, If you have injuries you should be able to pick the 4 who are needed and use them only but there's 6 guys to choose from. It doesn't make a lot of sense all the talk about player welfare then when guys get injured teams can be down to 15 guys and that can makes risks higher for concussions and injuries due to fatigue.

[Hail Sezer]

Titans just need to bite the bullet with the QRL and enter their own team in the Qcup, or go to NSW Cup if the QRL are going to sook (which they will regardless). It's the one piece of our pathway program and roster management that is holding us back from getting the best possible pathway/development system from juniors to seniors. Expensive exercise but.

[Menoitios]

I'm more then happy to give local juniors more time (e.g. AKP as well) than players we've bought in so in that regard so happy to see him get some game time. However, the big difference here is both Hunt and Deardon have a strong running game. It's just not something Sexton can emulate. If they are having an off game they can always fall back on the old "run first" approach and hopefully spark something. For Sexton his game needs to be almost perfect in other areas in order to compensate for this. Hunt and possibly Dearden (haven't watched enough) are also pretty decent defenders, something both our young halves seem to struggle with (another issue with Sexton's lack of speed). I'd love to be proven wrong but I just don't see enough in his game to overcome his shortcomings at the moment.

Hate to say it but I'd actually love to see him head up to Brisbane as Reynolds is probably the best current player he could learn off in regards to getting the best out of his abilities and hopefully becoming a quality NRL 7.

Toby being thrown into the position he was in last year was such a terrible decision by the coach. The entire team was a clunky, clumsy and seemingly clueless entity last season. And it got worse as the year wore on, and what was left of Toby's by then shattered confidence hung by a thread until finally he was "rested". You could see him fading. His frustration was mounting and his kicking game got worse. His pass selection became erratic and his goal kicking dried up. Ironically...the very same skills he has, that got him into the position he was in, broke down purely because of the position he was in.

Where was the dominating forward pack an experienced 7 needs to give them room to operate? (Let alone a 7 with limited NRL experience.) Where was the NRL quality 9 that makes life so much easier for an experienced 7 to operate? (Let alone,,,) Where was the NRL quality 6 that can take the pressure off an experienced 7 (Let alone...)

The disappointing thing for me is...if he gets a run next week, he'll be in the same position. There won't be a lot of footy smarts out there to help him do his thing at the best of his ability. Take Verrills, Foran and AJ out of the spine and we lose a lot of smarts. AJ's energy loss is very noticeable.

Side note; Toby has put the hard yards in over the off season and his game is getting back on track (at q-cup level) A quick peek at his stats for this year show he's equal 2nd top points scorer. Equal 2nd for goal kicks. Equal 2nd for line engagements. 3rd for kick meters. Nowhere in sight for negative plays (errors, penalties, handling errors)

Granted, q-cup is only 3 games in for the season, but so far he's scored 1 try and kicked 12 goals (75%sr) He's forced 2 dropouts and his average kicking meters come in at 203.5m. He's put on 3 try assists, 2 line break assists, made 51 tackles at 92.7% efficiency and he's averaging 84 running meters per game. Nothing too outstanding, but solid.

Drop him into a footy side that has both experience and quality in key positions, behind a hardnosed, take no crap forward pack and amongst a side that has a good footy IQ (understands the massive importance of decoys, push plays with line engagements etc etc in the modern game)...and you'll see an NRL 7 given time.

But then again...he's slow ay?

[Cowabunga]

Being unathletic is a pretty major issue once you get to NRL level to be fair, It's a big reason why some of the most skilled guys don't make it in NRL and have to go to England and kill it, they're either to small or slow to make up for how big the jump in athleticism is in the NRL. It's the same reason people have concerns around Weaver getting the shot right now, His body isn't ready yet but he's been the pick out of both them at QRL from what HS and Mdrew seem to have said.

The issue around Toby is we don't really have that time to give him and there's a lot of talent coming through to take his spot. We're in a phase where we're transitioning from rebuilding to really going for the top 4/8. There's still potential for him to earn the 7 back if Tannah goes down but being decent at QRL or NRL level isn't good enough, He needs great every week to get the jersey back. Tobys goal kicking stats aren't good enough there, Tannahs one elite skill that's noticeable is his goal kicking where he's number 1 in the league.

We 100% treated him wrong and I was one of the fans saying he should be given the 7 over Tannah to start the year, We also did the same thing to Tannah though and we've chosen him to be the guy to stick with and he's shown enough to keep the jersey for now. Professional sports isn't fair and it's looking like he was the sacrifice in our mistakes last year that we learnt from.

[Menoitios]

Just to clarify, when I comment on Toby...I am centering my attention on his circumstance and abilities as a player in general. I'm not saying, and I don't think anyone else is either, that he should play 7 in Boyd's stead. Nor am I saying he will one day become a world class 7 outright. I also am a big supporter of Tannah.

What I'm touching on is the obvious fact (and I know a lot of us see it...but some don't) that Toby was on a hiding to nothing last year because of the team's efforts/attitude. To judge his full ability and skill set and predict his future based off last year (or even next week perhaps) would do you little to no justice.

I'm happy with a fully fit AJ, Foran, Boyd and Verrills.

In a perfect scenario regarding Sexton, and I wish no injury, suspensions or poor form on anyone...I'd rather Boyd was the only one unable to take his place in our spine for the next few weeks and Toby got his chance and was brought in. If our forwards could up their mongrel (like JJ has this year) and if AJ, Foran and Verrills were at 100%, I think we'd see a lot more of Toby's true worth.

In a nutshell, I don't believe Toby Sexton is anywhere near as bad as some like to espouse.

[gotitans101_]

Just to clarify, when I comment on Toby...I am centering my attention on his circumstance and abilities as a player in general. I'm not saying, and I don't think anyone else is either, that he should play 7 in Boyd's stead. Nor am I saying he will one day become a world class 7 outright. I also am a big supporter of Tannah.

What I'm touching on is the obvious fact (and I know a lot of us see it...but some don't) that Toby was on a hiding to nothing last year because of the team's efforts/attitude. To judge his full ability and skill set and predict his future based off last year (or even next week perhaps) would do you little to no justice.

I'm happy with a fully fit AJ, Foran, Boyd and Verrills.

In a perfect scenario regarding Sexton, and I wish no injury, suspensions or poor form on anyone...I'd rather Boyd was the only one unable to take his place in our spine for the next few weeks and Toby got his chance and was brought in. If our forwards could up their mongrel (like JJ has this year) and if AJ, Foran and Verrills were at 100%, I think we'd see a lot more of Toby's true worth.

In a nutshell, I don't believe Toby Sexton is anywhere near as bad as some like to espouse.

I was one of those people who defended him last year, but the more game time he had the worse he got. Was he getting worse, or was it that teams had just worked him out already? And I'm not copping the excuse that our forward pack was unmotivated and our team was clunky either. There were so many instances last year where he consistently took the wrong option inside the opposition 30, handed possession straight back to them as a result so we had to defend again. I still remember sitting in the car and hearing Andrew Moore going off on how bad he was, I think in the away game against the Sharks. The only other halfback who would have survived playing that poorly is Brooks.

And yes, speed, athleticism, whether you like it or not, play a big part as well. Why would the defence be worried about an 80kg half slugging into their defensive line? The linebreak threat is never there. I'm not trying to be cruel on the kid but he is really slow, and while that's not his fault it's just the harsh reality of it.

Obviously we'll never come to an agreement here and I would love to be wrong about Toby. I did say I'd give him another shot but then if he plays poorly it's straight back to square one again.

[Menoitios]

I was one of those people who defended him last year, but the more game time he had the worse he got. Was he getting worse, or was it that teams had just worked him out already? And I'm not copping the excuse that our forward pack was unmotivated and our team was clunky either. There were so many instances last year where he consistently took the wrong option inside the opposition 30, handed possession straight back to them as a result so we had to defend again. I still remember sitting in the car and hearing Andrew Moore going off on how bad he was, I think in the away game against the Sharks. The only other halfback who would have survived playing that poorly is Brooks.

And yes, speed, athleticism, whether you like it or not, play a big part as well. Why would the defence be worried about an 80kg half slugging into their defensive line? The linebreak threat is never there. I'm not trying to be cruel on the kid but he is really slow, and while that's not his fault it's just the harsh reality of it.

Obviously we'll never come to an agreement here and I would love to be wrong about Toby. I did say I'd give him another shot but then if he plays poorly it's straight back to square one again.

Sigh...okay. I'll reply by point.

He got worse/teams worked him out - I know and have already addressed above.

Our team wasn't clunky - I assume you mean all round, and if so then...wow.

Speed and athleticism is important - Thanks scoop!

Why would the defence be worried about an 80kg half attacking the line - Because if the rest of the side were switched on and playing less clunky...opportunities arise. Take an in depth look at the sharks numbers/stats and how they play. You'll soon see what I mean.

Obviously we'll never agree here - Agreed haha!

I did say I'd give him another shot but then if he plays poorly it's straight back to square one again. - How well do you expect him to play with the team busted like it is?

Your post reads like you blame Toby alone for us being a basket case last year. Perhaps you think the way we finished with Tannah and a few wins proves your point. I hope not. That's what those people say that know bugger all about us, the opposition and footy in general would say.

Loads of people claim Toby is rubbish, but then their balls shrink and the say something lame like...oh, I'd be happy to be proven wrong. I'm not in that boat, that's all. Rather than blaming a single player for our failures and then doubling down by declaring he can't improve, I would rather the whole squad improves and our results change.

We're on course.

Sorry for the boring replies today everyone. I promise to get back in my box and not post for a few days!

Enjoy the bye!

[Titanic]

I haven't read one person slagging off at him unfairly.

The entire club knew that letting Fogarty (and let's remember how much he got rained on) go was ridiculous and that Sexton was being thrown in at the deep end. Yet it has ended-up in a complete debacle. Fifita was put on the right edge and his form drop was blamed on Sexton ... wrong, that was the coach's selection issue. Boyd couldn't ignite him with an industrial blowtorch and even Foran has had his issues with him on his preferred left edge. But what we all learned about Sexton was that he is slow. He is slow to move as many have commented and although he is constantly being touted as having a huge rugby league IQ, at NRL level he was also pretty slow between the ears. However, he is certainly an honest, courageous footballer and deserves better. One has to wonder how much the influences of Proctor, Wallace, Dymock and our coach have played into his form.

Enough of that. This is only my opinion and I hope that he bursts out of that funk and kicks ar$e for his sake and the Club's.

[gotitans101_]

Speed and athleticism is important - Thanks scoop!

Yeah it's pretty simple stuff. Toby sadly does not have any speed at all.

Why would the defence be worried about an 80kg half attacking the line - Because if the rest of the side were switched on and playing less clunky...opportunities arise. Take an in depth look at the sharks numbers/stats and how they play. You'll soon see what I mean.

What? My point was his lack of speed only contributes to his predictability. And his predictability contributes to the opposition knowing whether he's gonna run the ball or who he's gonna pass it to. Slow to run, slow to pass, whatever. I didn't see it as much the guys around him not being switched on tbh, and it's up to him as a halfback to organise his side of the field (though this could easily be blamed on his lack of experience).

How well do you expect him to play with the team busted like it is?

You just said that last year it was the players he had around him that were to blame. Right now, we may be busted but it's all within the spine, apart from JJ and Jojo who we've been able to cover for. If he can't play off the back of that pack that we have now, what's the excuse then?

Your post reads like you blame Toby alone for us being a basket case last year. Perhaps you think the way we finished with Tannah and a few wins proves your point. I hope not. That's what those people say that know bugger all about us, the opposition and footy in general would say.

Wrong, and nowhere did I even say that. I put the club at fault for letting Fogarty go when they did, I never understood it. And I even said that on this very forum yet I was assured that everything would be okay. The reality of it is that Toby should never have been thrown into that position to begin with. I 100% agree with that. But even after all the games he played, I didn't see any improvement in him at all.

Loads of people claim Toby is rubbish, but then their balls shrink and the say something lame like...oh, I'd be happy to be proven wrong. I'm not in that boat, that's all. Rather than blaming a single player for our failures and then doubling down by declaring he can't improve, I would rather the whole squad improves and our results change.

If you think for one second that I don't want to see him or anyone else in this team improve then you're so off the mark. Maybe throw him in for a few games and see how he goes then. But if there's still no improvement then I don't see a reason why we should persist with him unless he can show something in QCup somewhere down the road.

[Ausphin]

If you are ever second guessing the Marzhew / Randall trade, then just watch his defence to remind yourself why we let him go. Another Marzhew special just now against Sea Eagles. Horrible read.

[Hail Sezer]

If you are ever second guessing the Marzhew / Randall trade, then just watch his defence to remind yourself why we let him go. Another Marzhew special just now against Sea Eagles. Horrible read.

It’s so, so bad.

It’s even more atrocious when you consider how long he’s been in NRL systems to fix it.

[Hail Sezer]

Really good game this afternoon between Tweed and Burleigh in the Qcup. Quality contest and no one really played badly. Well done to Burleigh who won with a penalty in the final play of the game.

Ken Maumalo turned out for Burleigh and played his first full game in a while. Contributed well. Big carry and was a constant threat in the air in the red zone. Knee is pretty heavily strapped still from his pre-season surgery.

Think he’ll probably spend a few weeks at Burleigh just getting reps in and getting some match fitness before we can expect to see him in top grade.