2023 Season General Discussion Thread

[Titanic]

The logic is the Bears and Tweed stay loyal. I don’t see the advantage in partnering up with anyone outside the region and the schools network continues to flow through them.

[Hail Sezer]

Some issues to also consider as to titans contracted colts players who are not ready for QRL. What happens to these players if interstate clubs takes over Burleigh and/or Tweed ( both attractive clubs) or do the Titans set up a colts team as well.

Lots of issues to consider if the proposal gets the green light.

It's a really good question WD. Few things to note when thinking about it:

-If an interstate team aligns with Burleigh or Tweed, they don't take over it - the clubs are independent and it's purely as a Qcup feeder for NRL squad members who aren't playing NRL. MM is a rep competition, and HDC is a standalone competition.
-Every NRL club in NSW + Melb, Canberra and Warriors have their own SG Ball and Flegg teams already.
-Highly doubt Titans set up a 21's team. Too expensive and it's excessive expenditure for what is a pretty weak competition (the best kids in that age group are often Qcup). Honestly, I don't see the HDC comp lasting that long.

If Burleigh and Tweed come to some agreement whereby they have a partial feeder agreement with the Titans that works in tandem with a Titans Qcup team, great - business as usual. But I do think those Qcup clubs are going to have to align with another NRL club to be competitive and save money.

So, assuming they did align with someone else, the questions in that case would be -
Are the Titans comfortable with players going back to Burleigh/Tweed to play HDC, but not Qcup, because the Qcup side is influenced by another NRL club?
Are Burleigh and Tweed comfortable with coaching, developing and selecting Titans contracted players in their HDC teams that are not going to benefit their Qcup team, and will go and play for a competitor (Titans Qcup side) instead?
Where do the Titans 18's graduates go if they're not Qcup ready, it's not in either the Titans or Burleigh/Tweed's best interest to have those players playing in their HDC sides?

From the Titans perspective, based off their recent form I think the preference is to get 18's graduates playing against men as soon as possible, and progressing to Qcup as quickly as possible, so the answer to that last question is probably to have them playing local A-grade, which they're doing with a few at the moment and did with Lofi/Tristan/JC a well. I'm not sure whether this is the right or wrong answer long-term, but it seems to be the logical direction they would go in.

Some food for thought and the topic is a real point of dicsussion that I agree has a lot to be answered before it makes sense.

[Cowabunga]

Are the Titans comfortable with players going back to Burleigh/Tweed to play HDC, but not Qcup, because the Qcup side is influenced by another NRL club?

I guess we're already doing this with Souths Logan and it's a sad reason why I know this but Joseph Pouniu was at Redcliffe and coming down I guess next year? I kind of like kids getting experience in another system as long as they're with us quite a lot.

Where do we sign kids from?? School footy or local clubs? As long as we have PBC, Marsden and Keebra locked down I'm not to fussed.

[Hail Sezer]

I guess we're already doing this with Souths Logan and it's a sad reason why I know this but Joseph Pouniu was at Redcliffe and coming down I guess next year? I kind of like kids getting experience in another system as long as they're with us quite a lot.

Where do we sign kids from?? School footy or local clubs? As long as we have PBC, Marsden and Keebra locked down I'm not to fussed.

Yep so with CC & MM (16's and 18's) the Titans just let their contracted players just play wherever is convenient for them given their age - we've got a few spread across the Brisbane based clubs. The Titans will sometimes make an effort to relocate MM aged players with Burleigh or Tweed to strengthen those teams but they're generally comfortable just letting them play wherever. On the flipside, Burleigh and Tweed MM will also always have players that are contracted to other NRL clubs too, and did so this year - Titans just happen to have a lot in those particular rep squads because it's in the heart of our catchment area. Key thing to keep in mind is that CC & MM is a statewide rep comp, and the teams are rep teams - so players can come from wherever to play for them.

So whilst MM is always the best of the best of the U18 group in QLD, HDC (21's) is a bit different and in that awkward age bracket where kids have finished School and MM eligibility, often full-time or part-time with NRL and best-case playing Qcup, but sometimes not quite ready - whether it's through ability or their physical.

In terms of recruiting, we sign kids from school footy, local cubs, rep carnivals, etc. Most kids are signed the year they turn 15 (which is the earliest they can be signed), and generally at the latest is their final year of 18's. So it shouldn't have a huge impact on the ability to sign the best talent. In any case, any club has always had the ability to sign any kid so long as they're not contracted elsewhere and scouts are everywhere in SEQ.

The challenge for the Titans is working out best method of managing the pathway of those kids in that 19's to 21's age bracket who are too old for MM but not Qcup ready, if there isn't an appetite to send them to Burleigh or Tweeds HDC sides.

[Cowabunga]

You'd hope it's not a whole lot of players in that 21's age bracket because most would be ready or around the QRL team. How many guys are in this category right now? I think all our JTS guys are playing QRL who are in that age group besides R.Foran? Maybe we could just give Burleigh and Tweed a bit of cash to take guys on or to buy guys to replace our u21s? I don't know how they're cap/business works.

With squads apparently going to 38, There's a chance we'd probably still have enough guys to send to Tweed and Burleigh, Maybe we let them keep some of their juniors there till they're ready for NRL. That defeats most of the point though so not a great idea.

I actually trust the club to have a plan for all these things, Surely they've thought everything through, This is a pretty major thing to do.

[Whats Doing]

I think you may be surprised as to how many are playing Colts and not QRL over the last couple of years but off the top of my head are players such as, Hau, De Groot, Donovan, Liles, Shannon, Seth, Foran, Bryant. I may be wrong on a couple of these and missed out on some others but would suggest it is quite a number and consideration needs to be given as to what pathways those players who are older than MM but not ready for QRL should take that will continue the development of these players who may turn out NRL standard players but take a couple of years longer to develop.

With the investment already given up to MM, it would seem this aspect needs to be seriously considered and the young players can still see a pathway to the NRL during this intervening period.

Suggestion by HS of potentially A grade is a good one as a stepping stone and still being seen as a pathway.

[DIEHARD]

If the QRL actually approve this, it'll just be a matter of time before they introduce an NRL reserve grade because the QRL was the main roadblock to that proposal.

I can see this having a negative effect on many of these Queensland Cup clubs and that's a shame. The NRL isn't the be all end all for me. Hopefully there is a compromise and the QRL can get some concessions for the clubs being cut adrift.

I take on board everyone's opinions on how this will benefit the Titans NRL team because I opened such a discussion a couple years ago and was interested in what people had to say. I think I was in the minority.

Let's see what happens.

[Cowabunga]

Very true. If this happens it could weaken the comp a bit though and maybe these guys would be able to play QRL? I think it hurts QRL in the short term but potentially makes it stronger long term.

A lot of this comes down to if 38 squad spots happen and how it gets implemented, I think Abdo said on the footy show on the weekend that they'll have different designated contracts where I think 4 would be the current development players but the other 4 would be that age group that potentially gets missed out on (20-24) but all would be able to play at any time.

The other concern is potentially spots being crowded for spots, at least now we can send guys to 2 clubs.

Are we sure that Frizelle and Kelly won't pay for u21's and u19s? They've been throwing money at a lot of things. If QRL u21s won't be a thing for much longer there will probably be a plan for something else anyway.

[Hail Sezer]

I think you may be surprised as to how many are playing Colts and not QRL over the last couple of years but off the top of my head are players such as, Hau, De Groot, Donovan, Liles, Shannon, Seth, Foran, Bryant. I may be wrong on a couple of these and missed out on some others but would suggest it is quite a number and consideration needs to be given as to what pathways those players who are older than MM but not ready for QRL should take that will continue the development of these players who may turn out NRL standard players but take a couple of years longer to develop.

With the investment already given up to MM, it would seem this aspect needs to be seriously considered and the young players can still see a pathway to the NRL during this intervening period.

Suggestion by HS of potentially A grade is a good one as a stepping stone and still being seen as a pathway.

Yep, it's not so much the full-time guys but the part-timers, future full-timers and JTS pathway players in that age group that the Titans would need to work out how to manage. Can't imagine Burleigh or Tweed would be too keen to house them in their HDC sides if it meant they could still end up playing for the Titans Qcup team (and against Burleigh or Tweed) during that season.

Seth Nikotemo is the only current full-timer not playing regular Qcup at the moment but you've got a heap of guys in that U19's and U20's group who are in our junior system and will need a place to play if they're not playing Qcup. WD has named a few who are good examples. Plenty of part-timers, future full-timers, and JTS pathway players who the Titans want to continue developing and assessing.

@Cowabunga - I personally don't see them investing in a 21's side. Makes little sense to prop up our own age group side for a competition that is really just a short-term transition lounge for kids to play Qcup, and diluted for talent and loses quality as a consequence. I'm not sure that competition will even last. If anything I think they would look to introduce their own MM side, or enter a Titans team in SG Ball down in NSW

I don't see crowding for spots being an issue. Every single NSW team can enter a side in NSW Cup without any problems and full-time roster limitations will control how that looks anyway. The bigger issue that currently exists is players who need to be playing Qcup not being able to get a run because the Titans don't get to control how the teams are selected. Jaylan De Groot for example should really be playing Qcup every week, but he's just not able to get a run because there's 2x long standing Qcup players in his way at Tweed. Of course, Tweed have the right to select who they want, but it's blocking his pathway and not in the best interest of his development from the Titans perspective.

[Cowabunga]

Titans potentially having a rivalry with Bears and Seagulls is pretty messed up and probably isn't great for local supporters and clinics + A lot of juniors/players are going to come from these clubs.

If we did this it'd make way more sense for me to wait for a National Reserve grade comp because I think that could happen sooner then later, At least we're not harming local clubs who have helped us or not on purpose and we can't do anything about it, I'd probably even try the NSW comp before this.

[DIEHARD]

The bigger issue that currently exists is players who need to be playing Qcup not being able to get a run because the Titans don't get to control how the teams are selected. Jaylan De Groot for example should really be playing Qcup every week, but he's just not able to get a run because there's 2x long standing Qcup players in his way at Tweed. Of course, Tweed have the right to select who they want, but it's blocking his pathway and not in the best interest of his development from the Titans perspective.

Good point!

[Hail Sezer]

Titans potentially having a rivalry with Bears and Seagulls is pretty messed up and probably isn't great for local supporters and clinics + A lot of juniors/players are going to come from these clubs.

If we did this it'd make way more sense for me to wait for a National Reserve grade comp because I think that could happen sooner then later, At least we're not harming local clubs who have helped us or not on purpose and we can't do anything about it, I'd probably even try the NSW comp before this.

Just to explain, Tweed CC and MM are rep teams and are plucked out of other local clubs and northern NSW, they aren't kids that have come through "Tweed juniors". HDC is usually a flow-on from this group, and then their Qcup team is seperate again.

Burleigh does a great job of having a big junior program but the juniors and seniors aren't really attached, and once they get to CC/MM it's rep footy again so there's a few Burleigh juniors that get chosen for that squad, but you're still plucking kids from all over the place to make the strongest team possible. Yes they have their own local age group sides but I highly doubt the Burleigh Bears U13's are going to know or care too much that the Titans Qcup side plays against the Bears Qcup side haha.

IMO, we're not harming local clubs who have helped us, thats too broad and a bit of an oversimplification. Specifically, we've helped two local Qcup teams - Burleigh and Tweed - by dropping players back to their Qcup side for a number of years. In the process, this has also saved them a heap of cash - because they're not needing to pay these players themselves. We'e also helped them recruit, by offering NRL pre-seasons and the like. They've helped us by having a place to send those players to and play and develop at a good level. Both sides have benefitted. Juniors is seperate, junior reps are seperate again (CC & MM), and they will continue to operate as it always has except for possibly the HDC comp which isn't a local comp anyway.

GCRL goes way, way beyond those Qcup teams. Those are just the Gold Coast based teams that happen to have a team registered and entered at that level. Titans run clinics regularly with all of the junior clubs within their catchment area, Burleigh included.

I will say, Burleigh are so self-sufficient that I really think they could just roll out a Qcup team without any Titans in it tomorrow and probably be competitive. They're a great club. Tweed I think will need to strengthen their roster a fair bit, but that's on them. You can't be a Qcup team and over-rely on Titans dropbacks to prop you up and be competitive.

[Titanic Believer]

Some great discussion. Thank you all.

[Cowabunga]

I highly doubt the Burleigh Bears U13's are going to know or care too much that the Titans Qcup side plays against the Bears Qcup side haha.

What about old mate who's had 27 schooners at Burleigh leagues club who's lost his multi on another collapse from us????????

Thanks for the good explanation, makes a lot more sense now. I do think this actually makes the QRL stronger in the long term with maybe some short term pain for some teams but in the end it gives more opportunities to kids around the area + if Titans are killing it more kids want to play footy. Maybe with Burleigh we could just help them with the pre season train n trials in exchange for our young guys staying there and keep the Tweed partnership if they're more desperate for decent players?

The concern footy wise I'd have is young guys ready for QRL getting stuck behind other already young guys who need to be in QRL as well and I guess that's the JTS guys mentioned around 20 not playing QRL. I'd have to look at how Penrith and others handle these things and squad numbers. It'd be a good problem to have to be fair.

[Hail Sezer]

Didn't want to resurrect the Manly match thread so posting here. AJ was Mic'd up for the game v Manly:



Good little bit of insight into the role of a fullback organising the D around the ruck.