Should the NRL have a Reserve Grade? / QCUP Future

[lonegull]

Great discussion this one, I for one would like to see the reserve grade brand back being used to love going to the footy watching the presidents cup then reserve grade and the firsts.
Also players in reserve grade can build combinations with only one team, but the on the other side of the coin is the costs to the clubs to run another side it wouldn’t come cheap

[Titanic]

Our current squad would struggle in the Reserves.

[Hail Sezer]

Nope, not for me.

Doesn't make any financial sense and doesn't work with the current CBA and club rosters, particularly in QLD. This goes way beyond whether or not it is "better" and going to be more attractive for crowds than Qcup, which serves its purpose well and has reasonable demand as a product as-is...hence the emergence of Qplus. There is one weekly free game on Kayo and 9.

If they're going to do it, the current pillars that hold up the NRL contracting system and club funding would need to be remodelled significantly for it to make any sense for the Titans.

[Boonarga]

I’m a yes but mainly because I want at least two games on game day. Driving 4hrs each way (especially the way the are playing now) is a bit much. Alternatively, and even better, would be for every club to have a womens team and double headers every time.

[Smakked]

I think there needs to be. I also think we have to many teams and not enough talent. the Gap from top to bottom is ****in stupid. All the NRL want is money and they dont really care about the game IMO but thats the way of the world these days

[DIEHARD]

I've certainly come around to the alarm of a deficit of talent in the NRL. Helped by being on the pointy end of that.

[Upthetits]

I've certainly come around to the alarm of a deficit of talent in the NRL. Helped by being on the pointy end of that.

I tend to think it's more of a coaching than talent issue

[DIEHARD]

I tend to think it's more of a coaching than talent issue

True. And who'd want to be a coach!?

We need to nurture and support coaching talent from the grassroots. An opportunity is during that transition period from being an NRL player to a post player career.

[Titanic]

When the coach can be continually questioned directly and indirectly by the players/managers through the media coupled with the players being well paid and having a limited pool of talent, then you add a lack of accountability, what you end up with is the cart pulling the horse. Bellamy, Bennett, Payton, Stuart, Flanagan even Kevvie all don’t take it. My point is that the Cleary nice guy model only works if you’ve got excessive talent and a rigid adherence to the coaches culture.

[DIEHARD]

Leading Gold Coast rugby league figures divided over future of Queensland Cup and NRL reserve grade
https://www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au...6a19897ecc6898

After group of Gold Coast figures revealed plans to bring a new elite rugby league team to the region, leading coaches have been divided on the future of the state’s top competition. See what it could mean for local sports fans.

A leading Gold Coast rugby league coach says the creation of a Queensland Cup team in the city’s north will remain a pipe dream until the NRL decides on the future of its second-tier competitions.

The Bulletin revealed last week secret plans for a northern Gold Coast state team that could harness the burgeoning list of young league players in the rapidly growing region.

But Ormeau Shearers coach Stuart Wilkins says the growing gap between the NRL’s top and bottom teams was evidence something needed to change in the game and a proposed reserve-grade comeback could help.

The NRL have reportedly been in discussions to bring back a competition which would feature second-tier teams from each of the first-grade clubs.

Further suggestions have included fielding teams affiliated to the Broncos, Titans, Cowboys and Dolphins in the Queensland Cup, with both ideas likely to open the door for more players to join the professional ranks.

But the Queensland Rugby League has fought back against such suggestions, concerned it would diminish and ultimately tarnish the statewide competition and its current sides.

While there are pros and cons to both arguments, Wilkins sees merit to the NRL’s proposal.

In Round 24 alone six of eight winning NRL teams scored more than 40 points, headlined by the Wests Tigers’ 72-6 hammering by the Sydney Roosters.

While Wilkins said he had not seen a huge gap between the strength of the grassroots and Queensland Cup sides in the region, ultimately a greater emphasis on junior pathways needed to be more to the forefront of thinking than another Glitter Strip outfit.

He said until a final decision was made on the future of both the state league and the NRL reserve grade concept the idea of a new franchise would likely remain a pipe dream.

“I don’t think there’s a chance in the world of a Queensland Cup side getting to Pimpama or anywhere around the area until that’s resolved,” Wilkins said.

“I think there’s a real good push for reasons to have back up NRL teams that play on the same teams and the facilities in the same name.

“I think that’s the better fit, the argument is interesting and there would still be a third competition but it would just merge to a different level and it’ll still be part of the pathway.

“There’s a monopoly of clubs that don’t have access to quality players. There needs to be in my view better management of the programs currently without putting in another side or without moving into the NRL or reserve grade.

“When asking whether a new Queensland Cup side would be appreciated in Ormeau and valued in our area the answer is probably yes, but it’s far more complicated than that.

“Don’t get me wrong we’d love to have one in our backyard, but there’s more to it than that.”

Not everyone however is on the same page.

Helensvale Hornets leaders Wayne Court and Ian Frame were the masterminds behind the north Gold Coast Queensland Cup bid, and have confirmed they would revisit the idea once the powerbrokers in the game settled on their future plans.

Meanwhile Burleigh Bears A-grade coach Matt Foster has vehemently rejected the NRL’s concept.

The veteran mentor of more than 100 Rugby League Gold Coast has also worked in the club’s Queensland Cup coaching staff and said the plight of the state’s top league would deprive late-blooming athletes the chance to reach the pinnacle of the sport.

Canberra Raiders halfback Jamal Fogarty and South Sydney Rabbitohs ace Cody Walker are perhaps the leading examples of current stars who missed out on higher honours early in their careers but garnered opportunities through the strength of their state level performances.

This year Bears fullback Taine Tuaupiki impressed to the point where he will join the New Zealand Warriors for the 2023 season.

Fosters said his concern was that the loss of the Queensland Cup would ultimately narrow the scope of NRL clubs when it came to assembling their squads.

He said the flow on from that would hinder the grassroots of the game and provide fewer avenues for players to remain engaged.

“It could make things a little bit harder, it certainly puts the end product a little bit further away. It definitely could effect I guess that exposure because the NRL would then close it’s a doors a little bit,” Foster said.

“We’re talking what ifs, but if you’ve got a first-grade and reserve grade then the NRL will circle itself in that with less exposure for teams around there. That would be not good for the grassroots for the kids who want to aspire to do what Taine has done.

“I think it would end up being a third tier competition with Queensland Cup, I’m not certain how the state wide competition would go with funding and the effect it would then have on the Queensland Cup be broken into regions.

“I’m absolutely against it, for Burleigh Bears as a club it would have a negative connotation.”

Revealed: Secret plans to bring new league team to Coast
— September 13

With the fate of the Sunshine State’s leading rugby league outlet up in the air, a group of Gold Coast pundits have revealed plans have been in the works to bring a new elite outfit to the region.

With the Queensland Rugby League pushing back over the NRL’s proposed return of a reserve first-grade competition, Helensvale Hornets president Wayne Court has unveiled the past pursuits to create a Queensland Cup side based in the Glitter Strip’s north.

And those close to the cause have confirmed they will convene again in the coming months to assess the sport’s landscape and brace for an upcoming window to launch again.

The concept was envisioned to provide an avenue for players from Rugby League Gold Coast’s northern clubs and regions to push towards the upper echelon of the game without having to leave their home towns.

Smaller communities such as Pimpama, Beaudesert and Beenleigh would also benefit from the idea, while such a move would also remove the travel demand players have in order to compete for spots within the top sides.

According to Court, who was part of the bid teams — the last of which began in 2019 — the proposal followed the model Toowoomba had incorporated which has launched them into the 2023 Queensland Cup.

The Garden City started by bringing in women’s, colts, under-18s and under-16s sides before working towards the senior men.

While Court said their plans came to a head largely due to the Covid-19 pandemic, locking in a long-term base for the proposed club, as well as the reintroduction of the Clydesdales, he said should the rugby league landscape present a window of opportunity the group of visionaries would be quick to launch the push once again.

“100 percent, it will definitely be worth chatting about again. We’ve had Burleigh and Tweed as the clubs for years and I don’t think there’s been new ones down this way for 10 years or more,” Court said.

“In that time the amount of growth on the Gold Coast is enormous, even if you look at the last five years the growth is huge compared to what it was.

“Around Brisbane you’ve got seven teams there, we’ve got two here, but the Gold Coast population is now fast tracking up to being sixth biggest in Australia and growing fast.

“The under-16s and under-18s compared to back in the day 10 years ago, we’ve doubled that now. It was to give guys more opportunity to play harder football and develop from there; not so much take away from Tweed or Burleigh but just to complement them.

“There’s still a massive gap.”

In 2022 alone, junior participation has spiked dramatically on the Gold Coast.

Data released by the QRL revealed that community involvement has increased by 11.9 per cent this year, with the creation of a girls under-12s competition coinciding with a 42.76 per cent female growth.

Junior male numbers also rose by more than six per cent to 5,337 competitors.

New RLGC chairman Matt Bradford also confirmed earlier this year that plans were in place to bring in teams from Beaudesert, Pimpama and Yarrabilba into the fold, while outgoing head Peter Daley said the under-20s competition was set to go from five teams to as high as 10.

Court said the 2019 bid, spearheaded by Ian Frame, was the closest they came to bringing the concept to light, with Logan’s Heritage Park identified as a potential home ground.

When that facility became unavailable, the thinking changed to Pimpama, Flagstone and Beenleigh.

Frame confirmed that at the time he was appointed CEO of the hopeful franchise, and said even now investors were very much keen on the idea.

He said the pandemic was the key factor in easing off in their pursuit, but he and the rest of the people involved in the push would look to convene prior to Christmas and discuss the viability of the cause.

“It only died down with Covid, but the investors are very interested. They’re sitting back and waiting for the next move and the chess pieces are still being moved around by the NRL and QRL,” Frame said.

“Until we understand the landscape on offer I’m still sitting in the background very much in touch on a monthly basis with them.

“They’ve now sat back and watched and only recently we discussed it again and are basically planning on getting together before Christmas to see where the cards lie now and make a decision from there.

“With those different concepts that have been mooted by the NRL and QRL it’s making sure that if we do start this it’s a multi-million dollar project that can be supported.

“I still think there’s a massive need in the area for an extra franchise.”

However even with the Toowoomba outfit coming into the Queensland Cup next year, the competition’s longevity has recently been called into question.

The NRL initially were reportedly eager to bring back the National Reserve Grade format, with another option being the Broncos, Titans, Dolphins and Cowboys fielding teams in the statewide season.

But there is fear such a move would diminish the regional outfits by hindering the affiliation NRL clubs have with those systems, while removing quality talent from those sides.

A counter, however, becomes the chance to bring more prospective stars into an NRL system and receive exposure to elite performance coaching and facilities to strengthen the professional product even more in the future.

As that conversation continues, Court said he believed a move to continue strengthening the Queensland Cup would in turn have flow on effects to the local competition and provide stronger breeding grounds for the Gold Coast Titans.

Frame added that clubs such as Helensvale and Ormeau typically struggled to attract marquee players, and a pathway towards the QCup and NRL could help fix that.

And given how the likes of former Burleigh and Titans halfback Jamal Fogarty rose through the feeder club pathways, Court said another team could prove crucial for youngsters who missed out on NRL opportunities by giving them the chance to battle more seasoned elite players.

“The way I look at it is from a QCup point of view, a lot of footballers don’t necessarily balloon young. You see guys balloon as they get older or don’t hit their straps until they’re older, so it gives those guys an opportunity to be seen instead of being lost in the cracks,” Court said.

“The perfect example was Jayden (Campbell); looking at him, he didn’t make all the rep sides coming through, then the first year he’s playing with us in the 20s and he played for Burleigh and played Cup (for Tweed) and first grade.

“There’s plenty of guys floating around who could be up to it and playing if given the opportunity. I’m not saying there’s heaps here or there, but they’re floating around playing A-grade who could definitely handle playing QCup.

“I know in Brisbane if you go to a certain club, say Easts Tigers, they’ve got two feeder cubs — Bulimba Bulldogs and Carina Tigers — that are there. Their players go back to there and up to there, so you could see that if you had more sides.”

[DIEHARD]

Wayne Bennett pleads with NRL not to kill Queensland Cup
https://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/nrl/

The war for talent in Queensland has taken a new turn, with Supercoach Wayne Bennett pleading with the NRL to leave Queensland’s top competition be.

Wayne Bennett has issued an impassioned plea for the NRL to not kill Queensland’s top competition as QRL chief Ben Ikin urged the Titans to target the neglected western corridor.

The Queensland Rugby League is at war with the NRL after the ARL Commission rejected a $4.2 million funding proposal to overhaul the Hostplus Cup.

The QRL made the application to expand to a 17-team competition next year to accommodate a request from the Gold Coast Titans and North Queensland Cowboys to field their own reserve grade teams in the second-tier league.

The Titans have been left scrambling after losing an affiliate relationship with Gold Coast powerhouse Burleigh Bears.

Ikin blasted the NRL and its CEO Andrew Abdo, accusing him of backstabbing the QRL and plotting to launch a national reserve grade that would have major ramifications for the Hostplus Cup.

And he has found an ally in the Dolphins’ supercoach Bennett, who warned the NRL not to sabotage Queensland’s premier competition.

“We cannot mess with the Queensland Cup which is the best second-tier competition in the world,” Bennett said.

“It was too expensive to run an NRL reserve grade 30 years ago, can you imagine the cost of doing it in this day and age?

“I have been coaching since 1977. Ron McAuliffe started the state league competition in the 1970s and that’s how much longevity has gone into our game in Queensland and the game in this state has never been in a healthier position.

“There is no code in this country that would not love to have what we’ve got with the Queensland Cup. I’ve looked at all sorts of models and nothing is as effective as the structure we have now.

“I coached in NSW for nine years with the Dragons and Newcastle and they don’t match what we do. They are nowhere near what we do in Queensland in terms of game development and pathways.

“The Queensland Cup has a team in Papua New Guinea all the way down to Toowoomba (and Tweed Heads).

“We don’t need an NRL reserve grade. It’s nonsense. It’s another expense we don’t need and it won’t make our competition any better.

“I personally do not want to see the Queensland Cup affected in any way, it’s underpinned the success of the game and the expansion with the Dolphins coming into the NRL.”

While the QRL’s proposal was rejected, killing the competition’s expansion plans, the Titans have been the biggest losers from the fiasco.

After the Titans outlined plans to launch their own reserves, successful feeder club Burleigh – who have helped produce NRL stars Darius Boyd, Ben Hannant and Jai Arrow – struck an affiliate deal with the Brisbane Broncos, who had a spot open after Norths Devils linked with the Dolphins.

The Broncos’ shrewd move to secure the Gold Coast’s premier club has seen the Titans surrender a key development pathway on the back of having their reserve grade plans dashed.

Ikin said the QRL’s preference was for NRL clubs to have multiple affiliates, rather than their own reserve grade team, but they were open to accommodating the Titans and Cowboys’ wishes.

Now, he has urged the Titans to consider boosting the struggling Ipswich Jets, who are last on the Hostplus Cup ladder without a win in 2023.

The western corridor is considered to be a league heartland and nursery and while the Jets have a relationship with the Sydney Roosters, they do not receive fringe players for their top team.

The Toowoomba-based Western Clydesdales entered the Hostplus Cup this year and have an agreement with the Canterbury Bulldogs, but also don’t receive players.

“We were trying to remain flexible and open-minded,” Ikin said when asked why the QRL supported the Titans and Cowboys’ plans.

“We did the respectful thing for the Cowboys, Titans and NRL, while the other three NRL clubs that operate in the Hostplus Cup (Broncos, Dolphins, Storm) pursued the affiliate model, to try and come up with something workable that we could trial for two years.

“We were very transparent the whole way through with the Titans about what we were submitting and what we’d be doing going forward under both scenarios, whether the ARLC approved it or not.

“Under the new rules, this might create an opportunity for the Titans to chat with the Jets, depending on what the contract looks like with the Roosters.

“I really rate Ben Cross as a head coach (Jets) and thinker and really like Richard Hughes (Jets CEO). What they’re trying to do there will be made better at the top level if they can form an affiliation with an NRL club that’s going to supply them surplus top 30 players.

“There’s no two ways about that. The Clydesdales are in the same boat.”

[DIEHARD]

QRL boss Ben Ikin slams Andrew Abdo after expansion plans collapse in $4m funding fiasco
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/

Days after the player pay war erupted, the NRL has been engulfed in more funding dramas, as QRL boss Ben Ikin fired up after a $4m expansion plans collapsed.

Ben Ikin has launched a stinging attack on the NRL and chief executive Andrew Abdo after plans to expand Queensland’s top competition crumbled in a $4 million funding fiasco compared to political pork barrelling.

On the back of the player pay war exploding into a media boycott this week, the NRL has been engulfed by another drama that has escalated tensions with the Queensland Rugby League.

This masthead can reveal the ARL Commission rejected a proposal from the QRL to expand the Hostplus Cup to 17 teams next year following a request from the Gold Coast Titans and North Queensland Cowboys to field their own reserve grade teams.

The NRL claimed the QRL was seeking an additional $4.2 million in funding – on top of its annual $20 million grant – to expand the competition.

New QRL chief Ikin blasted the funding rejection and accused Abdo of trying to place the Titans and Cowboys in NSW’s top competition.

“We worked in good faith with the NRL to cost-up a hybrid solution that would allow the Titans and Cowboys to have second-tier teams in the Hostplus Cup from next year,” Ikin said.

“It came with two conditions. There would be extra funding for our state league clubs and competition logistics, and the new competition structure would proceed as a two-year trial.

“The ARLC rejected our proposal, which ironically the NRL helped design, but not before Andrew Abdo contacted the NSWRL and tried to convince them to let the Titans and Cowboys play their second-tier teams in the NSW Cup.

“That deeply offended the QRL, and rugby league people on the Gold Coast and in north Queensland should feel just as disappointed.

“Think about that – the NRL CEO working behind the back of the QRL to get two Queensland clubs to participate in a NSW competition.”

The NRL issues the QRL a grant of about $20 million-a-year, which covers everything from grassroots junior footy to State of Origin match payments for the Maroons.

The QRL was seeking further funding to increase club grants and cover the costs of an expanded Hostplus Cup featuring NRL teams – but that will not be happening.

After outlining plans to launch their own reserves, the Titans have been left red-faced by Hostplus Cup heavyweights Burleigh Bears signing an affiliate agreement with the Brisbane Broncos.

The Titans have now lost their relationship with one of Queensland’s premier clubs and pathways and won’t field a dedicated reserve grade team next year, leaving them with just the Tweed Heads Seagulls as a feeder club.

Abdo said the NRL was not in a position to fund an expanded Queensland competition as it continues to assess pathways.

“We’ve been working on a national view for development of pathways, including the second-tier competitions,” he said.

“It’s important the Commission takes a broader view on development. We have the rest of the country, New Zealand and the Pacific as well.

“We’re working with our members on what the right development model is for them and many are seeking a vertically integrated model.

“The QRL provided us a proposal on June 13 with a deadline of June 30 saying they will accommodate two extra teams if the Commission invests another $4.2 million into the Queensland Cup competition. We were given two weeks to respond, with a number of restrictive conditions and a significant funding increase.

“We are very supportive of clubs choosing the right model for development and are prepared to invest in making that happen.

“We are not yet in a position to consider an investment of the size proposed in an ultimatum style proposal in a two-week period.”

When asked about Ikin’s allegation that the NRL attempted to place the Titans and Cowboys in the NSW Cup, Abdo said: “I am having regular conversations with the QRL, NSWRL and all 17 NRL clubs about options and what their plans are.

“Have I had conversations with the QRL and NSWRL about second tier competitions and their view on expansion and clubs? Absolutely.”

The Hostplus Cup will remain a 15-team competition next year and Ikin urged the NRL and ARLC chairman Peter V’landys to invest in Queensland’s rich pathways – instead of trying to crush them.

“In the case of the Burleigh Bears, they saw the direction the Titans were heading and decided to link with an NRL club that believes in the role state league clubs play in the development pathway in Queensland,” he said.

“Unfortunately, it seems that Andrew Abdo continues to push for some version of national reserve grade, which is just another way to pork barrel NRL clubs by giving them more money and greater control of the supply chain.

“Not forgetting that Peter V’landys is on the public record saying he wants to bring back national reserve grade and he’ll run over anyone that stands in his way.

“The QRL will fight with everything we’ve got to protect our statewide competitions and clubs, and we’ll stand against any decision that negatively impacts on our rugby league communities across Queensland.

“We’ve got clubs, competitions and pathways that run from PNG all the way down the eastern seaboard into the Tweed that create more opportunity for more people in more places.

“We get unbelievable backing from the Queensland Premiers’ office, all the way through to local businesses across the state, who invest upwards of ten million dollars to support the work our state league clubs do in their communities.

“My advice to Andrew Abdo on our competition is – don’t mess with it, invest in it.”