2022 Season General Discussion Thread

[Hail Sezer]

Hi All,

Let's use this thread for general discussion about the Titans 2022 Season.

Ladder position, coaching discussion, general questions, week to week chat and anything else that doesn't fit into the other dedicated threads on here.

To help you navigate to other specific threads:
Squad, signings and rumours: http://www.leagueoftitans.com.au/sho...Rumours-Thread

NRLW: http://www.leagueoftitans.com.au/sho...-and-2022-Draw

Key areas to improve to make us finals contenders again: http://www.leagueoftitans.com.au/sho...ntenders-again

JTS to NRL (juniors, pathways and extended squad): http://www.leagueoftitans.com.au/sho...nsition-lounge

mdrew's junior development goldmine: http://www.leagueoftitans.com.au/sho...or-Development

and of course keep an eye out for the week to week match threads

[willhelm]

Before the season started, everyone thought we had an easy draw because they assumed Broncos and Cowboys would be bottom 4 contenders again. However, they're both top 4, and in hindsight our draw has actually been very difficult:

Eels x2
Cowboys x2
Broncos x2
Panthers x1
Sharks x1
Roosters x1
Rabbitohs x1
Manly x1
Raiders x1
Dragons x1
Warriors x1
Tigers x1

Against teams outside the 8, we're 3/5. When we made the finals last year, we didn't beat a single top 8 side. We came close a few times but just couldn't ice it, kinda like this year... except the competition as a whole is much stronger this year and it has shown us where we really sit.

[Just-a-Fan]

I just think more mongrel in our defence get rid of player that are not doing it in defence
Start with a warning then use it put in the lower grade Might spark something or not if not that player needs to be moved on
Sexton to me is going ok need to be help out I think get Cronk to come and coach him for a bit we have so many young players in the spine even AJ has no NRL experience in the number 6 spot chase Smith to come and coach our hooker on how to help manage a team on the field even our fullback can do with extra coaching
Get rid of player going next year as well bring in some new blood and give them a crack
I also think Herbert is a winger I think him and JoJo swapping spot would help out in so many way I see a lot of good in JoJo
Here is my 2 player that would turn this team around now McInnes and Burton but what really do I know I just watch footy

[lonegull]

Our defence is a liability, we are been torn to shreds in every facet. From no line speed to our middles then our edge getting picked to pieces, the whole defensive system needs a restructure or to be amended heavily. I can go on and pick pieces out on our defensive system but as a whole thats where the coaching staff needs to fix urgently, have a look at the cowboys and what payten has done turning them into one of the best defensive sides in the NRL it shows that a good defensive side will always win games

[Menoitios]

Our defence is a liability, we are been torn to shreds in every facet. From no line speed to our middles then our edge getting picked to pieces, the whole defensive system needs a restructure or to be amended heavily. I can go on and pick pieces out on our defensive system but as a whole thats where the coaching staff needs to fix urgently, have a look at the cowboys and what payten has done turning them into one of the best defensive sides in the NRL it shows that a good defensive side will always win games

100%. And it's something we can work on now. It's what struggling sides do. Next year...player/coach movement will come in time. We need to do something now, and that's sort the defence!

[NZFan]

We've made some really good recruitment decisions over the past two seasons in Tino, Fafita and Fermor but we've also made some shockers.

- Clarke is all passion but no brains or skills
- Herbert is a hot head that is more concerned with the big shot, rather than reading a defensive line
- Isaako makes at least two poor decisions a game
- Marsters even worse than Isaako
- Joe Vuna is a waste of a roster space. I know that he has been injured but he never set the world alight at the warriors, is not physically threatening and has been really poor in the limited game times he's had
- Sam Lisone is does not have the right body shape or fitness for the style of game that is now required.

What do these players all have in common? All kiwis - yip, but also all players that no other club wanted. I realise that we can't fill a roster with superstars as there is a cap to consider but there is also no point in buying players when their track record is poor.

We need to recruiting players that are fit for purpose. For example, all of our wingers (except perhaps Sami) are smaller than average. We have invested a lot into our wingers and are effectively bringing them through Cup now, so they need to be paired with a centre that is tall, can read plays defensively and importantly, communicate. At the moment we are bombing to the wings and hoping that our small outside backs can get above much taller opposition (some might simply say stop bombing but we need to have that option available and be able to diffuse bombs).

Another example is our middle forwards. With the exception of Tino, not one of our middles can bend a line. They all skip around before the line and aren't capable of an offload (with the exception of Wallace but he's now gone).

Hooker is the glaringly obvious problem. We recruited Clarke for peanuts, liked the fact that he was enthusiastic, gave him full reins of the position and guess what? he failed. The reason why he failed was not because of coaching, it was because he's not a natural hooker. The writing was on the wall last year when he openly argued with Fogarty on the field (who was not only his halfback but also his captain), yet we chose him to be our hooker moving forward. Clarke will never ever be more than a Cup grade player and thats simply because he doesn't doesn't have the smarts or skill required to play NRL.

The problem that we have now is these bad decisions will haunt us for the coming years when it comes to recruitment. We are running last with an out of sorts roster and nothing to attract good players to the club. The off contract list this season offers slim pickings and the ones that were worth grabbing have been picked up by the Dolphins (Matterson, Stone, Jesse Bromich). I get that we put a lot of eggs into Brandon Smith this year and it didn't pay off but what is our plan B? We must have a stack of money left in the cap after missing out but no one to spend it on now.

[The Birdman]

We've made some really good recruitment decisions over the past two seasons in Tino, Fafita and Fermor but we've also made some shockers.

- Clarke is all passion but no brains or skills
- Herbert is a hot head that is more concerned with the big shot, rather than reading a defensive line
- Isaako makes at least two poor decisions a game
- Marsters even worse than Isaako
- Joe Vuna is a waste of a roster space. I know that he has been injured but he never set the world alight at the warriors, is not physically threatening and has been really poor in the limited game times he's had
- Sam Lisone is does not have the right body shape or fitness for the style of game that is now required.

What do these players all have in common? All kiwis - yip, but also all players that no other club wanted. I realise that we can't fill a roster with superstars as there is a cap to consider but there is also no point in buying players when their track record is poor.

We need to recruiting players that are fit for purpose. For example, all of our wingers (except perhaps Sami) are smaller than average. We have invested a lot into our wingers and are effectively bringing them through Cup now, so they need to be paired with a centre that is tall, can read plays defensively and importantly, communicate. At the moment we are bombing to the wings and hoping that our small outside backs can get above much taller opposition (some might simply say stop bombing but we need to have that option available and be able to diffuse bombs).

Another example is our middle forwards. With the exception of Tino, not one of our middles can bend a line. They all skip around before the line and aren't capable of an offload (with the exception of Wallace but he's now gone).

Hooker is the glaringly obvious problem. We recruited Clarke for peanuts, liked the fact that he was enthusiastic, gave him full reins of the position and guess what? he failed. The reason why he failed was not because of coaching, it was because he's not a natural hooker. The writing was on the wall last year when he openly argued with Fogarty on the field (who was not only his halfback but also his captain), yet we chose him to be our hooker moving forward. Clarke will never ever be more than a Cup grade player and thats simply because he doesn't doesn't have the smarts or skill required to play NRL.

The problem that we have now is these bad decisions will haunt us for the coming years when it comes to recruitment. We are running last with an out of sorts roster and nothing to attract good players to the club. The off contract list this season offers slim pickings and the ones that were worth grabbing have been picked up by the Dolphins (Matterson, Stone, Jesse Bromich). I get that we put a lot of eggs into Brandon Smith this year and it didn't pay off but what is our plan B? We must have a stack of money left in the cap after missing out but no one to spend it on now.

Great post NZFan. I totally agree.

[Titanic]

Generally agree NZ that we are a dumping ground for some of your countrymen but feel that Lisone and Herbert haven’t been total losses, however the game has evolved beyond their skill levels. I also agree with your assessment of our wings except I’d call Marzhew short but hardly small. The Dolphins have the bux to cripple the market also-rans so it’s up to our juniors. Blood then now.

[Menoitios]

Tremain Spry at 6'2" and 98kg is quite a decent size for a winger. Seen him at the game last week. He's looking good and I hope not far off.

[Hail Sezer]

Some good points there NZF, although I do tend to agree with Titanic that those players aren't all in the same bucket. I wouldn't say Vuna is a waste of roster space either, his time with the Warriors was as a 19 year old and his time with us was after 2 years out of the game. He was playing some good football at Tweed prior to the injury and for someone at that end of the roster (salary wise) you'd expect a fringe player. If they turn out to be something more, great.

I agree with your sentiment on the middle forwards but still think we're focusing on the wrong side of the ball. IMO their defensive capabilities (or deficiencies) should be the priority followed by their athletic profile. Offensive tools are useful but mean nothing unless we improve the way our middle is able to defend for long periods of time.

Height of the outside backs is something I've flagged as well. Wingers I'm ok with when Sami is healthy and I think we have good variation in athletic profile with Spry, Marzhew, CT, Lofi, Jojo all in the mix. It's our centres I'm more worried about when paired with a shorter winger. High balls is one problem but the other is that the biggest defensive space on the field - outside of 3 man - is being defended by 2 guys with below avg wingspan. Campbell Graham or Stephen Chrichton can eat up twice as much space with half the amount of movement...just some food for thought. It goes without saying that more rangey centres come with offensive tools as well. Variation, options and different ingredients for combinations is what I'm getting at as opposed to saying one is objectively better than the other. Spry, Francis and to an extent Jojo would all be adequate but none seem to be immediate options in the position.

Matterson is one concussion away from retiring and Jbrom is 33...I don't think we're missing too much there either

[NZFan]

Fair point HZ and Titanic regarding Lisone and Herbert. They have shown some potential for us in the past but have both seriously gone off the boil this year. While they may not be as bad as the others listed, their time at the Warriors showed that they can be hot and cold and their time at the Titans has been no different. It seemed very premature re-signing Lisone last year for another 3 years when nobody else was banging on his door.

Whilst I'm all for blooding juniors, none of them seem overly ready. Jojo is still learning his craft and Lofi needs to add some weight. Francis seems to be the more logical choice (and offers a bit more physicality) but he has been playing wing instead of centre. I understand why you would bring outside backs through cup on the wing before shifting them into centre, but the fact that he hasn't had time to learn his craft at centre just proves that he isn't ready for NRL yet in that position.

Spry's situation is particularly unfortunate for us. He was looking good before he was was released last year and was the logical succession to move into the centres. In the trials this year he looked hungry to get back in the mix. Let's hope he can get back to where he was. If he's back training and around the group hopefully he can pick up the vacant spot left by Smith.

HZ on Matterson - why does it matter if he's one concussion away from retiring? It might not ever happen and if it does then we just medically retire him and go in another direction. Both him and JBrom would offer that defensive rigor that we're after and have come through better systems than ours. I don't see any better options on the market presently, do you?

[Hail Sezer]

Fair call on Matterson NZF and that logic checks out, but I guess I’m saying my preference would be to altogether avoid taking on a high-salary player that you’d be exposed to a potential medical retirement for. Medical history would mean more time on the sideline than would otherwise be required for anything head related, etc. I just see a bit of risk there is all.

The other thing we’d need to consider is salary, which we’ve already invested heavily in middles so spending another 500k+ on a single player in that position group I don’t think would be good cap management.

You’re right that options are scarce so we’re lowkey screwed (yay) but if we’re talking strictly middles available end of ‘22, I’d take a different approach and target young up & coming cup hardened middles with leaner athletic body types that love to tackle and are low-cost. Some examples are guys like Jirah Momoisea and Jackson Topine.

Short-term I don’t think we can afford to spend big in the position but my approach would be to prioritise cost-effective different body types that are high-effort, big engine, defensively efficient. The other side of the ball will work itself out when we aren’t gassed and returning the ball from our own try line because we gave up another 60m set

Oh, and I’d find a new defensive coach too. But that’s another discussion

[willhelm]

Surely Max King fits that description, HS. Bring him home.

[Hail Sezer]

Surely Max King fits that description, HS. Bring him home.

Oh for sure! I only looked at those off contract end of 2022

[Whats Doing]

Thoughts on Turner’s first game?

Thought he was really quiet most game and did not seem to be able to set up his outside players. But showed in the last 5 minutes he is good on his feet, can sense the gap and is very quick.

Defensively I see that is is biggest concern where there was a lot of arm grabbing and not much putting his body on the line.

I can see why he played most of his games at fullback this year in QCup.

Anyway good to see he has got another chance this week and see whether he improves and to what extent.

That is the purpose of blooding young players to test the waters to see where they are at NRL level and how much more work they need to reach NRL level.