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  1. #1216
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    Backing Toby by himself and letting Fogarty go to be nice to him was just really dumb.

    Broncs defended well. That makes your kicking game easier to execute. He was apparently brilliant against the Panthers 2 weeks ago and even then they still had 40 put on them. Watch his game against the Warriors and Cowboys - they defended poorly, he was terrible. I think that's a better indication of what we'd be seeing from someone like Reynolds if we'd signed him. Not to mention an expensive old half with depreciating value is a short-term solution that is only worth it if you're a genuine premiership contender, IMO.

    Need I mention Shaun Johnson? There was a pretty strong chorus on here to sign him too.

    Credit to the Broncos though. Pains me to say but their defensive resolve is pretty admirable.

  2. #1217

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    Yep the thing that hurts is it just seems to be a lack of effort. Something as simple as line speed is such a basic concept and makes a world of difference, look at the pressure that the Broncos put on Hynes and Talakai as soon as they got the ball, they had no room to move and couldn’t do anything with the ball. Meanwhile we just sit back and watch the forwards make 60m per set and give opposition playmakers plenty of space to move.

    That either comes down to a lack of effort and care, or like we’ve mentioned before it’s a coaching strategy, which would be the stupidest thing I’ve ever seen.

  3. #1218
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    Whilst it is only part of the solution, having a high class halfback is an important ingredient for a team hoping to be contenders for the premiership.

    Broncos, Cronulla and Cowboys all recognised this and went and they grabbed the best halfbacks available this year in Reynolds, Hybes and Townsend. They were all outside the top last year and now in the top 8 this year. The common factor in all 3 clubs was the securing of a top tier half.

    It takes time to adjust and fit in when going to a new club and those 3 will only get better as the season unfolds. You only need to look at Souths to see the impact of losing Reynolds has had in the side and having an inexpienced half where they were grand finalists last year to being very inconsistent this year and currently outside the top 8,

    Our recruitment team was totally negligent in not chasing one of the top halves that were on the market this year and relying on an inexperienced half with little NRL experience. The development of Toby would have been so much better having a Reynolds to provide guidance.

    Whilst there are other major problems with the side such as our defensive structure which has played a significant role in the decline in performance of the side, so has our recruitment team

  4. #1219
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    Broncos are a perfect example of having lockdown backs in defence and physical defenders in the middle. Did you notice last night the broncos just slid. No one rushed up out wide risking an overlap or came in instead of trusting the player next to them? they just marked their players and had cover ready.

  5. #1220
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    I think people are judging the Broncos prematurely. I’ve watched them all season and last night’s performance was an anomaly. I don’t think they will sustain it over the season.

  6. #1221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whats Doing View Post
    Whilst it is only part of the solution, having a high class halfback is an important ingredient for a team hoping to be contenders for the premiership.

    Broncos, Cronulla and Cowboys all recognised this and went and they grabbed the best halfbacks available this year in Reynolds, Hybes and Townsend. They were all outside the top last year and now in the top 8 this year. The common factor in all 3 clubs was the securing of a top tier half.

    It takes time to adjust and fit in when going to a new club and those 3 will only get better as the season unfolds. You only need to look at Souths to see the impact of losing Reynolds has had in the side and having an inexpienced half where they were grand finalists last year to being very inconsistent this year and currently outside the top 8,

    Our recruitment team was totally negligent in not chasing one of the top halves that were on the market this year and relying on an inexperienced half with little NRL experience. The development of Toby would have been so much better having a Reynolds to provide guidance.

    Whilst there are other major problems with the side such as our defensive structure which has played a significant role in the decline in performance of the side, so has our recruitment team
    I hear your point but I think this is really an oversimplification by saying recruiting halfback = they're now top 8. It's round 8 and only one of those halfbacks has performed consistently.

    Yes a halfback is important to win a premiership, obviously. Would we win a premiership in the next 3 years by signing Adam Renyolds? After 3 years, what position does this leave us in? What does this mean for our salary cap in the short term? These are the kinds of questions I ask when evaluating recruitment.

    I think there's an argument they were negligent in not signing an experienced half, or retaining Fogarty. For sure. But for not chasing a top half - with your example including Chad Townsend (come on now) - I strongy disagree with when including consideration for age, cost/value, contribution, longevity and our teams priority needs (in not just the immediate/short term). I'll point you again to those top teams (penrith/melbourne/roosters) and their premiership halves you used to prove your point - what do they all have in common?

    We are clearly on different sides of the fence here and that's all good. Appreciate you explaining your position WD

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    Quote Originally Posted by willhelm View Post
    I think people are judging the Broncos prematurely. I’ve watched them all season and last night’s performance was an anomaly. I don’t think they will sustain it over the season.
    yeah the recency bias is real

  7. #1222
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    Have we got Munster money sitting around?

  8. #1223
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    I'm not all that impressed with the Cowboys, we were just awful against them and made them look better than they are. I think they will come crashing back to earth soon. Their wins have been against Raiders x2, Broncos, and us. They also lost to the Bulldogs and Warriors, and got pumped by the hot-and-cold Roosters.

    Broncos have been all over the place. They beat a disappointing Souths in round 1, scraped a win against the Bulldogs in round 2, then got pumped by Cowboys and Warriors, lost narrowly to Roosters, pumped by Penrith, pumped the Bulldogs and then beat Sharks last night (their best win by far).

    Our losses have been against Eels x2, Raiders, Manly, and Cows. Those games were all relatively close except for Cows, which is an anomaly I blame on Holbrook messing around with our edges. Cows also played really well, hence the scoreline. We didn't deserve the win against the Tigers as we were abysmal that night, but we also should have won against the Raiders. That loss was particularly difficult to swallow.

    I think our recent run of poor form is primarily a result of an inexperienced and low confidence spine. Sexton looked great before the Raiders game, after which he has looked completely out of his depth and we have lost all semblance of attacking structure. I think he will come good eventually but perhaps this season is a write off as he learns. Remember last year when we won 3 in a row when he came in for Fogarty and everyone on the forum was in love with him? The kid clearly has talent. It's up to the coaching staff to make sure he doesn't go the way of Ash Taylor though.

    As others have said, one of the most pressing issues is stopping the 60 m per set we are giving away. I just do not understand this defensive strategy at all and I believe that it is probably coming from an out-of-touch Dymock. I like Holbrook as head coach and I think people calling for his head are just venting and not looking at the bigger picture. He seems to be more of an attacking coach though so we need a better defensive assistant who is up to speed with the current game. I would kill to have Ciraldo here, but I doubt he leaves Penrith for anything other than a head coach role.

    Another mistake was putting Isaako at fullback instead of Thompson the last few weeks. Is Holbrook not aware that Thompson has played a lot of fullback before? He's a good organiser -- exactly the experienced voice we need at the back. Not Isaako whose only attributes are solid one-on-one goalline tackles and a right foot step that every defender sees coming from a mile away. I'm ok with shifting AJ back to fullback and bringing Smith into 5/8, but I would've preferred a spine of Thompson/Brimson/Sexton/Clark. I was actually down in Wollongong for work yesterday and ran into Moses Mbye at a cafe. I said hello to him and mentioned that I'm a Titans fan but I'm happy he's doing well at the Dragons. He asked me about our team and I mentioned that AJ was shifting back to fullback this week. He responded asking why we don't put Thompson back there because he's a good player. He was as miffed as I was that Isaako got the nod over Thompson.

    I mentioned a few weeks ago that I thought Clark was the most improved this year, and I genuinely thought that at the time. He is quite good in defense and I like his energy, but the last few weeks he has completely stifled our attack. We really need a proper 9 so I think we should go hard at getting the Cows to release Robson or the Sharks to release McInnes. I really don't understand why McInnes went to the Sharks with Brailey there as an established 9.

    Anyway, I guess this post is a bit of a stream of consciousness about the current state of things. I'm as gutted as anyone with how our season has gone so far given how much hope there was. I don't think we're making finals this year but I also don't think all is lost. I especially advise against using Broncos/Cowboys as a benchmark to rank ourselves given the draw so far.

  9. #1224

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    I'm all for us going hard after McInnes even if he's under contract, he is a natural leader, has experience, is tough as nails and not too many options out there. He is behind Finucane and Brailey at the Sharks, he is the exact type of player we need. I know he is injury prone, but I'd take the risk until we can develop a no 9 ourselves.

  10. #1225

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hail Sezer View Post
    Backing Toby by himself and letting Fogarty go to be nice to him was just really dumb.

    Broncs defended well. That makes your kicking game easier to execute. He was apparently brilliant against the Panthers 2 weeks ago and even then they still had 40 put on them. Watch his game against the Warriors and Cowboys - they defended poorly, he was terrible. I think that's a better indication of what we'd be seeing from someone like Reynolds if we'd signed him. Not to mention an expensive old half with depreciating value is a short-term solution that is only worth it if you're a genuine premiership contender, IMO.

    Need I mention Shaun Johnson? There was a pretty strong chorus on here to sign him too.
    Geez mate, with the greatest of respect, I can't fathom your ongoing reasons to us not signing Reynolds. I recall you said that at the time so I admire your consistency with this one. In my opinion he is exactly what we needed and still do.
    In his 4 games late last year, every man and his dog could see that Sexton was as slow as a wet week. He was/is so slow that no amount of speed training was going to fix this part of his game. I said it last last season that in the 4 games he played, Sexton showed little. Harsh at the time but nothing has changed.

    Our season could have gone two ways this year. One, was start a track like the Panthers and with young spine players and experience. The players they started with though, had obvious ability. The other way was take a huge risk and hope it doesn't blow up in your face. I've made my views on the half position above and mentioned in an earlier post, our recruitment strategy around the hooker position was tragic. No back up plan when the Brandon Smith option fell over. It pains me to see a bloke like McInnes, a very good hooker, playing another position for the Sharks as they have a wealth in this position. We have nothing. While I'm on the negative rant, I'll say it here and now, that JC will struggle to make an NRL fullback due to his size. Not his fault, but his size prevents any contribution to defence.
    So, in summary, we took a risk with our spine, it has blown up badly and the coach and recruitment staff are copping the heat.
    Rant over.

  11. #1226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mexican titan View Post
    Geez mate, with the greatest of respect, I can't fathom your ongoing reasons to us not signing Reynolds. I recall you said that at the time so I admire your consistency with this one. In my opinion he is exactly what we needed and still do.
    In his 4 games late last year, every man and his dog could see that Sexton was as slow as a wet week. He was/is so slow that no amount of speed training was going to fix this part of his game. I said it last last season that in the 4 games he played, Sexton showed little. Harsh at the time but nothing has changed.

    Our season could have gone two ways this year. One, was start a track like the Panthers and with young spine players and experience. The players they started with though, had obvious ability. The other way was take a huge risk and hope it doesn't blow up in your face. I've made my views on the half position above and mentioned in an earlier post, our recruitment strategy around the hooker position was tragic. No back up plan when the Brandon Smith option fell over. It pains me to see a bloke like McInnes, a very good hooker, playing another position for the Sharks as they have a wealth in this position. We have nothing. While I'm on the negative rant, I'll say it here and now, that JC will struggle to make an NRL fullback due to his size. Not his fault, but his size prevents any contribution to defence.
    So, in summary, we took a risk with our spine, it has blown up badly and the coach and recruitment staff are copping the heat.
    Rant over.
    Campbell is only marginally smaller than Papenhuyzen. If Paps can make it, why not JC?

  12. #1227

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    Quote Originally Posted by willhelm View Post
    Campbell is only marginally smaller than Papenhuyzen. If Paps can make it, why not JC?
    Only 4kgs difference with Paps slightly the heavier, so you may have a point. I'll just back my gut feeling and hope I'm wrong. I mentioned JC's defence but in his games this season he showed little in attack either. Always looked sharp but never made a break.

  13. #1228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mexican titan View Post
    Geez mate, with the greatest of respect, I can't fathom your ongoing reasons to us not signing Reynolds. I recall you said that at the time so I admire your consistency with this one. In my opinion he is exactly what we needed and still do.
    In his 4 games late last year, every man and his dog could see that Sexton was as slow as a wet week. He was/is so slow that no amount of speed training was going to fix this part of his game. I said it last last season that in the 4 games he played, Sexton showed little. Harsh at the time but nothing has changed.

    Our season could have gone two ways this year. One, was start a track like the Panthers and with young spine players and experience. The players they started with though, had obvious ability. The other way was take a huge risk and hope it doesn't blow up in your face. I've made my views on the half position above and mentioned in an earlier post, our recruitment strategy around the hooker position was tragic. No back up plan when the Brandon Smith option fell over. It pains me to see a bloke like McInnes, a very good hooker, playing another position for the Sharks as they have a wealth in this position. We have nothing. While I'm on the negative rant, I'll say it here and now, that JC will struggle to make an NRL fullback due to his size. Not his fault, but his size prevents any contribution to defence.
    So, in summary, we took a risk with our spine, it has blown up badly and the coach and recruitment staff are copping the heat.
    Rant over.
    I've provided my reasonings mate and I'm always sure to explain myself instead of just announcing my opinion like it's fact. If I need to explain them better so you can understand then let me know which part you're not getting and I'll do so.

  14. #1229

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hail Sezer View Post
    I've provided my reasonings mate and I'm always sure to explain myself instead of just announcing my opinion like it's fact. If I need to explain them better so you can understand then let me know which part you're not getting and I'll do so.
    Very snarky mate. Thought you were better than that.
    I understand your reasons perfectly. Sorry to have a different view and yeah I get to the point. Not fact, just opinion. Like yours.

  15. #1230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mexican titan View Post
    Very snarky mate. Thought you were better than that.
    I understand your reasons perfectly. Sorry to have a different view and yeah I get to the point. Not fact, just opinion. Like yours.
    Come on MT. You said you couldn't fathom my ongoing reasons after I'd taken the time to explain them, in detail. I took it that you thought my reasoning was nonsensical.

    Not sure why you're apologising for having a different view. We've played enough tennis on this topic for you to know that isn't warranted.


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