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  1. #1891
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    Quote Originally Posted by willhelm View Post
    Let's try to quantify it. I'll use contract values reported in the media, so obviously take it with a grain of salt. Worst case scenario in terms of retaining Mo is that we sign Finucane and re-sign Tino on 700k each. Assuming we don't re-sign Wallace, Ese'Ese, Proctor, or Stone and re-sign Whitbread and Farmer (or equivalent minimum wage depth players), that gives us:

    Fifita: 1.2 m
    Tino: 700 k
    Finucane: 700 k
    Liu: 400 k (?)
    Lisone: 200 k (?)
    Jolliffe: 200 k (?)
    McIntyre: 100 k (?)
    Fermor: 100 k (?)
    Whitbread: 80 k
    Farmer: 80 k

    That's already 3.76 m, or 39% of the cap, tied up in the forwards with 4 forward spots in the squad needing to be replaced. How much more of that can we afford to allocate to a prop worth 700k+ on the open market? Also consider that if we do get Brandon Smith, it won't be cheap (800k to 1 m), and I'd say he is probably our highest priority recruitment target right now.

    Note the numbers here are for 2023 as Mo is already signed to us for 2022. Also note I excluded Peachey from this as he is technically a 'utility' even though he has been playing as a bench forward. Obviously, a lot can change between now and then and the above is based on the assumption that we sign Finucane. I think not signing him is the only way we can realistically keep Mo. Personally, I've been off the Finucane train since we signed Liu as I think they are effectively the same player in terms of the gap they fill in our squad (experience, leadership, middle workhorse). I would rather we prioritise Mo but if you listen to the media it sounds like we're favourites for Finucane.
    100% I don't think we sign Finucane that is what my assumption is based on (btut you are right the media seems to think so). I was always under the assumption it would be Liu OR Finucane not both. If you look at our re-signings so far to me it's basically

    Jolliffe: Takes Wallace Role
    Fermour: Takes KPs Role

    So you would assume those 2 are gone. I'm hoping we keep McIntyre as well.

    I think we both agree that what you would gain in leadership from Finucane is not worth losing a player like Mo over. We will see. I would like to extend peachy as well but by all accounts, he seems to find his player value is higher than it is. While I would love to keep the peach I dont know if we will but I think the super league may be the only place he finds the money he is after and even then who knows.

    Looking at our squad after 2022 as far as what is on the books (obviously, id love to have Mo locked up) and Tino has an option in its favour. But as its stands the assumed 2023 squad would be (its silly getting too far ahead but for ****s and gigs):

    1. AJ/JC (we have the option of his 2023 deal)
    2. Thompson
    3. Herbert
    4. Kelly
    5. Marzhew (not sure his status)
    6. Foges/ Turner/ AJ?
    7. Sexton/ Turner
    8. Joliffe
    9. Clark
    10. Tino (but the option is in his favour)
    11. Fermor
    12. Fifita
    13. Liu

    14. Turner?
    15. ?
    16. ?
    17. ?

    Now from that, you would also assume we upgrade the 9, a gun half and maybe a strike winger as I'm unsure what Marzhews status is, what about JC? etc.

    You are bang on about just how crucial those low to mid-tier contracts/ what juniors are coming through are going to be. We really need to pad out our bench/ cover and realistically hope for some of those mid tier starters and young prospects are punching above their weight. This time of year always throws out some surprises so lets see what happens
    Last edited by 5 Year Contract; 23-07-21 at 11:48 AM.

  2. #1892
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    Some really good posts above.

    I don't think we'll lose Mo. Signing Finucane (albeit just rumours) only to lose Mo would just be stupid. Melbourne had already offered us Brandon Smith for Mo in 2022, and if we were a fair chance of not being able to re-sign him we would've taken that trade I'd say.

    Surprisingly, at this stage we've only got 21 of our top 30 signed for 2022 (unless I can't count):

    FB: Brimson, Campbell
    Wing: Thompson, Sami, Fifita
    Centre: Kelly, Herbert, Marsters
    5/8: Turner, Boyd
    Halfback: Fogarty, Sexton
    Hooker: Clark
    Prop: Mo, Joliffe, Wallace, Lisone, Tino
    Backrow: Fifita, Fermor
    Lock: Liu, Mcintyre (or Tino)

    9 spots is a lot to fill, and those still without a contract include:
    Taylor, Peachey, Proctor, Marzhew, Pearson, Farmer, Whitbread, Ese'ese (PO), Vuna (?)

    Of those, I think one maybe two might get re-signed.

    That's likely still 7-8 spots to fill in a top 30. Which is a lot. Plenty still to play out
    Last edited by Hail Sezer; 23-07-21 at 01:20 PM.

  3. #1893
    One Clubman gotitans101_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hail Sezer View Post
    I don’t want to speak on behalf of the forum but obviously anyone here is disappointed if we don’t make finals. But I also think there is a sense of rationality around here that we probably aren’t as good as the papers made us out to be coming into this season. Is there still things to like? Absolutely. Willhelm summarised this pretty well. IMO if you’ve got major issues with the fact Fifita isn’t single handedly dragging us into the 8 then I don’t know what to tell you. Every team has players on big money.
    Just going to ignore the usual snarky comment at the beginning that I've come to expect from a few on here. But it wasn't only the papers talking us up; plenty of people on this forum and among the rugby league community were too. Even I was excited and thought we'd go better than this after racing home last year with 5 on the trot. And what happened? We started the year well only for the wheels to fall off....again. Some of the effort particularly in defence that we've seen from this team over the past few months has been deplorable. You can blame fatigue or the flow of the game all you want, as far as I'm concerned they're nothing but excuses, every other team has to contend with these aspects of the game, so no, it IS no excuse.

    As for Fifita, you never really addressed the point I was making; instead you just put words in my mouth. Of course I don't expect him to drag us to the finals but when a bloke is being paid amongst the largest contracts in the game you'd want to hope he's a big part of it. So far, apart from the Knights and Souths game and the odd try here and there, he has largely gone missing out on the edge. I don't care who lays the blame for it, if he's been coached to stay in his lane, but the fact of the matter is there's no way we're getting even close to the amount of value for money out of him so far this year. It was always going to be a massive risk paying a 21-year-old back-rower million-dollar contract, and so far I don't think we're getting good value for money (that's why I was comparing stats of an underpaid guy like Papalii who puts in week after week, to an overpaid guy like Fifita). If one of the big reasons for getting him here even at that price was to attract other players to the club then so far it hasn't worked at all, and imo the club should have thought about that before going all-in on him at the time. But that leads me to your second point, so I digress...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hail Sezer
    Honestly mate and I say this in all seriousness, maybe start your own thread where you can consolidate all of this type of discussion and converse about those apparently glaringly obvious issues with others who want to discuss it. This would add more value to the forum and might allow for some good discussion.
    It's funny you should say that, because at the time we were getting flogged by the Eels last week I'd decided I'd had a gutful and did exactly that, I'd done up a quick draft of a new thread for discussion primarily around the club's management and what we think needs to change...but after long deliberation I decided not to go through with it because I've absolutely no doubt that the thread would just be invaded with the usual posts assuring us that nothing needs to change and that everything is Hunky-dory. NZTITAN got all mad the other day when someone made a joke about Mal FFS. That's how bad it is. So it's pointless even trying to have a civil discussion on the wrongs and rights of the club.

    edit: and if the rumours about Mo leaving are true then stuff this club and everything they claim to stand for.
    Last edited by gotitans101_; 23-07-21 at 03:31 PM.

  4. #1894
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  5. #1895
    One Clubman gotitans101_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hail Sezer View Post
    You're a moderator and that's how you respond to my post?

    What the hell is wrong with this place?

    Like, I took time out of my day to respond to your previous post, and your counter-response was a dumb picture?

    You're better than that HS.
    Last edited by gotitans101_; 23-07-21 at 03:56 PM.

  6. #1896
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotitans101_ View Post
    You're a moderator and that's how you respond to my post?

    What the hell is wrong with this place?

    Like, I took time out of my day to respond to your previous post, and your counter-response was a dumb picture?

    You're better than that HS.
    It's because you're completely one-eyed for the most negative take on everything anyone says, so there's no point engaging any further. You don't just see the glass as half-empty; you don't believe there's a glass at all.

    Have you ever been involved in change management? One of the fundamentals is to do it incrementally with as few ripples as possible. What you're suggesting in your petulant rambling is equivalent to dive bombing from the highest platform. What would you have the club do? Sack Holbrook? Turn over half the roster like the Broncos are currently doing? Kick Bec & Darryl out and find new owners?

    Your complaints amount to nothing more than "but we have to do something!" while focusing on the shrubs and missing the forest. The club is doing something. They're doing many somethings which I already summarised for you in an earlier post that was ignored in favour of more angry ewok noises (I'd post the meme but I don't want to trigger you more than you already are). If our demonstrable year-on-year improvements in recruitment (+Fifita, +Tino for 2021; +Liu, -Taylor, -Peachey for 2022) and our vast improvements in junior development aren't enough to give you hope for the future then you're doomed to be forever hopeless.

    If you don't like people responding to you with memes, make your posts less memeworthy.

  7. #1897
    One Clubman gotitans101_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willhelm View Post
    It's because you're completely one-eyed for the most negative take on everything anyone says, so there's no point engaging any further. You don't just see the glass as half-empty; you don't believe there's a glass at all.
    But that could go both ways. I see you as one-eyed for the most positive take on everything anyone says, so that's why I don't enjoy engaging with you either. Whereas posters like MT and a few others do keep it real.

    Quote Originally Posted by willhelm View Post
    Have you ever been involved in change management? One of the fundamentals is to do it incrementally with as few ripples as possible. What you're suggesting in your petulant rambling is equivalent to dive bombing from the highest platform. What would you have the club do? Sack Holbrook? Turn over half the roster like the Broncos are currently doing? Kick Bec & Darryl out and find new owners?
    Well if we continue with this losing culture year after year then surely questions must be asked of senior management, coaches, players, am I not correct? That is all I'm saying. I never said anything about sacking anyone; I merely questioned those people's roles at the club and what exactly is it that they're doing different from the past to progress the club on the whole. I get it's not an easy job to do but we have to start somewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by willhelm View Post
    Your complaints amount to nothing more than "but we have to do something!" while focusing on the shrubs and missing the forest. The club is doing something. They're doing many somethings which I already summarised for you in an earlier post that was ignored in favour of more angry ewok noises (I'd post the meme but I don't want to trigger you more than you already are). If our demonstrable year-on-year improvements in recruitment (+Fifita, +Tino for 2021; +Liu, -Taylor, -Peachey for 2022) and our vast improvements in junior development aren't enough to give you hope for the future then you're doomed to be forever hopeless.
    Yes, the club is doing something, but I'm afraid we're falling into the trap of making the same mistakes of previous years which led us to this point in the first place. I've already posted on what those things are that I'm worried about, so I'm not going to post them again because whenever I do I seem to upset people by making those points. You make the point about our vast improvements in junior development yet we've been hearing this same line for the past 10 years now so for that one it's a case of I'll believe it when I see it.

    Quote Originally Posted by willhelm View Post
    If you don't like people responding to you with memes, make your posts less memeworthy.
    I agree plenty of my posts particularly in the game-day threads are memeworthy, I can't deny that. But posts like the response to HS where I try to put my reasoning behind my thoughts I didn't think was one of them; at least it wasn't intended to be.

  8. #1898
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    I stand with gotitans101. He’s unique and his views are valid.
    Let him be himself.

  9. #1899
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    Whilst there have been lots of activities that have been implemented by the club as indicated by Wilhelm, these actions should also result to incremental increases in improvements in the NRL side. Todate there have been little evidence on any improvements from last year and one could argue they have gone backwards and as such I have no problems with forum members questioning the lack of improvement in the performance of the NRL side so far .

  10. #1900
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bods View Post
    I stand with gotitans101. He’s unique and his views are valid.
    Let him be himself.
    a) Who is denying him his right to speak?
    b) Remind me of your views on Israel Folau’s right to speak.
    c) You have me on ignore

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by gotitans101_ View Post
    But that could go both ways. I see you as one-eyed for the most positive take on everything anyone says, so that's why I don't enjoy engaging with you either. Whereas posters like MT and a few others do keep it real.



    Well if we continue with this losing culture year after year then surely questions must be asked of senior management, coaches, players, am I not correct? That is all I'm saying. I never said anything about sacking anyone; I merely questioned those people's roles at the club and what exactly is it that they're doing different from the past to progress the club on the whole. I get it's not an easy job to do but we have to start somewhere.



    Yes, the club is doing something, but I'm afraid we're falling into the trap of making the same mistakes of previous years which led us to this point in the first place. I've already posted on what those things are that I'm worried about, so I'm not going to post them again because whenever I do I seem to upset people by making those points. You make the point about our vast improvements in junior development yet we've been hearing this same line for the past 10 years now so for that one it's a case of I'll believe it when I see it.



    I agree plenty of my posts particularly in the game-day threads are memeworthy, I can't deny that. But posts like the response to HS where I try to put my reasoning behind my thoughts I didn't think was one of them; at least it wasn't intended to be.
    Give me something actionable. Put your pitchfork down and tell me specifically what you think the club should do to fix the issues.

  11. #1901

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    Quote Originally Posted by gotitans101_ View Post
    Just going to ignore the usual snarky comment at the beginning that I've come to expect from a few on here. But it wasn't only the papers talking us up; plenty of people on this forum and among the rugby league community were too. Even I was excited and thought we'd go better than this after racing home last year with 5 on the trot. And what happened? We started the year well only for the wheels to fall off....again. Some of the effort particularly in defence that we've seen from this team over the past few months has been deplorable. You can blame fatigue or the flow of the game all you want, as far as I'm concerned they're nothing but excuses, every other team has to contend with these aspects of the game, so no, it IS no excuse.
    I have enjoyed reading the to and fro during the day and keep at it GT101, you are putting up a good fight. I agree with almost of everything you have posted.

    I have refrained from joining the throng as I have said many times that I think we are just going around in circles until we sort the hooker and halves out. I agree that this year appears to be a year of failure but I am saving any real criticism of Fifita in particular as I don't think we have given him much hope as we have no creativity. At the moment it is like kids footy where it is give him the footy and the big kid (Fifita) will score. The NRL is a bit harder than that and I just hope we will get some creative players that will turn him in to someone other than a flat track bully. Tino has done much better and gets in the game of his own initiative.

    Look back to the end of last season and we had holes everywhere. We have boosted the forwards but did nothing about the hooker and halves. It is almost impossible, either from a player availability perspective or a salary cap perspective to fix all in one off season. We needed 5 or 6 spots filled and we filled 2 or 3. Hopefully this off season we will boost the others, but it isn't looking good at the moment.

    However, I agree with you in that I am sick of the same issues on field recurring and this year will be going down as a fail. I do have faith that the front office is sorted and you can't do anything without them doing their jobs.

    I can't cop the excuses either and, to me, that may also reflect why the Gold Coast can never get it's act together in the sporting fields. I am a hard marker though. We all have our views and that is good. To the point of monotony, I was after any decent half back that was available, yet someone on here (hi HS) said that they didn't think Adam Reynolds would add anything to this club. I admitted myself to AA after that. I also dropped the clanger a few seasons back that AJ wouldn't make a fullback and plenty have reminded me of that one. Hopefully we can all make comments on here and people can take them in good faith, rather than take a cheap shot.

  12. #1902
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    The world would be pretty damn boring if people weren't willing to make some predictions, comments and calls.
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  13. #1903
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    Quote Originally Posted by willhelm View Post
    a) Who is denying him his right to speak?
    b) Remind me of your views on Israel Folau’s right to speak.
    c) You have me on ignore

    - - - Updated - - -



    Give me something actionable. Put your pitchfork down and tell me specifically what you think the club should do to fix the issues.
    Actionable. Mal earns the $ he is on and works on the Gold Coast closely WITH the team or he resigns.

    So how are you going to resolve this and how long should I wait?

    This game is littered with jobs for mates. FFS we had our financial controller off touring with his GF for a year and getting paid well for 10 mins work a week.

    Please don't compare hate speech with having a *****. It reduces any further impact your arguments have.

  14. #1904
    One Clubman gotitans101_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mexican titan View Post
    I have enjoyed reading the to and fro during the day and keep at it GT101, you are putting up a good fight. I agree with almost of everything you have posted.

    I have refrained from joining the throng as I have said many times that I think we are just going around in circles until we sort the hooker and halves out. I agree that this year appears to be a year of failure but I am saving any real criticism of Fifita in particular as I don't think we have given him much hope as we have no creativity. At the moment it is like kids footy where it is give him the footy and the big kid (Fifita) will score. The NRL is a bit harder than that and I just hope we will get some creative players that will turn him in to someone other than a flat track bully. Tino has done much better and gets in the game of his own initiative.

    Look back to the end of last season and we had holes everywhere. We have boosted the forwards but did nothing about the hooker and halves. It is almost impossible, either from a player availability perspective or a salary cap perspective to fix all in one off season. We needed 5 or 6 spots filled and we filled 2 or 3. Hopefully this off season we will boost the others, but it isn't looking good at the moment.

    However, I agree with you in that I am sick of the same issues on field recurring and this year will be going down as a fail. I do have faith that the front office is sorted and you can't do anything without them doing their jobs.

    I can't cop the excuses either and, to me, that may also reflect why the Gold Coast can never get it's act together in the sporting fields. I am a hard marker though. We all have our views and that is good. To the point of monotony, I was after any decent half back that was available, yet someone on here (hi HS) said that they didn't think Adam Reynolds would add anything to this club. I admitted myself to AA after that. I also dropped the clanger a few seasons back that AJ wouldn't make a fullback and plenty have reminded me of that one. Hopefully we can all make comments on here and people can take them in good faith, rather than take a cheap shot.
    Re your comment on Fifita. I get some of the criticism on him has been harsh and I stress that the blame doesn't lie on him, he took the money and good on him, and he hasn't been BAD...I just don't think he's quite lived up to his contract (yet). But it does pose the question; in what world did the club think it was a good idea to sign a 21-year-old back-rower on a contract equivalent to guys like, Teddy, Turbo, Slater, Smith, Cronk, JT, JT, Ponga etc, especially with a spine that was far from sorted? Like, what did they expect would happen?

    A bit of trivia for everyone, are there any other second rowers apart from the freak Lolo who are on > $1 mill currently?
    Last edited by gotitans101_; 23-07-21 at 06:38 PM.

  15. #1905
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    Much more entertaining than the Knights game. Forum is by nature a confrontational platform, just ask Julius Caesar. Whether it’s a lack of half’s or a coaching strategy or a lack of effort Fifita is an enigma … stand deep and run onto the bloody thing. As for AJ, is fb really his best position? We will never know the answer to that until 9 and 7 are resolved. Personally he went pretty well in the centers. We could debate nearly every position but the thing that concerns me most is not recruitment or selection or game plan, it’s my in-game perception that the players perhaps aren’t all on the same page.
    Last edited by Titanic; 23-07-21 at 06:40 PM.
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