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  1. #1546

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    On another note happy with the purchase of Young, he seems to have fitted into the team seamlessly and has plugged a centre gap which everyone has been screaming out for in years, hope we can sign him to an extended cheap contract this year.

    Need to really get in a solid second rower who can crack the line and has some leg speed. A big bodied winger is also on the list.

  2. #1547
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    Quote Originally Posted by elltee View Post
    Not at all, OJ got away with murder... The information leaking out true/false is pretty disturbing even if they pull the pin on the case. The fact that it has got to this point indicates there has to be some truth to the story. Anyway, you are correct this is not a forum for judgment on a person's character. Back to the original question... Thoughts on signing De Belin if St George if keen to release him Willhelm?

    *He did have a weird top knot for the first year of NRL so that needs to be taken into consideration as well.
    So then what is the purpose of the legal system if he is forever guilty in your eyes regardless of the verdict? No, the fact that it has gotten to this point does not indicate that there is truth to the story. The "where there's smoke there is fire" argument is a fallacy. It means nothing more than he will stand trial and the legal system will adjudicate his guilt. Not you, not I, not the "court of public opinion". If the real court finds him guilty, send him to prison. Give him a life ban from the NRL for optics if you so wish, though the prison sentence makes this practically redundant. If the real court finds him not guilty, don't continue to hang the accusation over his head for the rest of his life. It gives too much power to accusers, which is something I'm really surprised we're still grappling with at this point in history.

    To answer your question, if he is found not guilty by the real court, I have no problems with signing him and think he would be an excellent replacement for Arrow. Just like Brett Stewart would've been an excellent replacement for Preston Campbell.

  3. #1548
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    Quote Originally Posted by elltee View Post
    Not at all, OJ got away with murder... The information leaking out true/false is pretty disturbing even if they pull the pin on the case. The fact that it has got to this point indicates there has to be some truth to the story. Anyway, you are correct this is not a forum for judgment on a person's character. Back to the original question... Thoughts on signing De Belin if St George if keen to release him Willhelm?

    *He did have a weird top knot for the first year of NRL so that needs to be taken into consideration as well.
    What I read about the case at the time of arrest was absolutely disgusting. I’m with you. What a cretin.
    And we all know it’s very hard to get a Guilty verdict for women survivors.
    DeBelin de Cretin can stay well away from our little city.
    Not welcome.

  4. #1549
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bods View Post
    What I read about the case at the time of arrest was absolutely disgusting. I’m with you. What a cretin.
    And we all know it’s very hard to get a Guilty verdict for women survivors.
    DeBelin de Cretin can stay well away from our little city.
    Not welcome.
    Rubbish. I wish the media would stop perpetuating this nonsense that legal cases are adjudicated differently based on race/gender/whatever. Show me the evidence.

  5. #1550
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    Quote Originally Posted by willhelm View Post
    Rubbish. I wish the media would stop perpetuating this nonsense that legal cases are adjudicated differently based on race/gender/whatever. Show me the evidence.
    Rubbish back at you. And no you aren’t special enough for me to stop what I’m doing right now to do a research paper. My evidence is life experienced anecdotal and the criminal conviction rate for rape and sexual assault.

    I’ll stand up for the Protection of women.

    You do your thing.

  6. #1551
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bods View Post
    Rubbish back at you. And no you aren’t special enough for me to stop what I’m doing right now to do a research paper. My evidence is life experienced anecdotal and the criminal conviction rate for rape and sexual assault.

    I’ll stand up for the Protection of women.

    You do your thing.
    And I'll stand up for justice. Capitulating to anecdotal experience and vague misconstrued/misunderstood conviction statistics is not justice.

    De Belin deserves his day in court and I will support whatever the outcome is.

  7. #1552
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    Quote Originally Posted by willhelm View Post
    And I'll stand up for justice. Capitulating to anecdotal experience and vague misconstrued/misunderstood conviction statistics is not justice.

    De Belin deserves his day in court and I will support whatever the outcome is.
    Good you do your thing like I said. The conviction stats are construed correctly, you mustn’t understand mathematics yet.

  8. #1553

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    Quote Originally Posted by willhelm View Post
    And I'll stand up for justice. Capitulating to anecdotal experience and vague misconstrued/misunderstood conviction statistics is not justice.

    De Belin deserves his day in court and I will support whatever the outcome is.
    I agree with you from the legal point. If he is found not guilty then good luck to him.

    The case has been going on for a while and my memory may have faded however my recollection is and what has not been disputed is that he did the deed with that woman and at the time his partner was heavily pregnant. If true, that, in my eyes is he not the sort of bloke we want. From my missus point of view, just the fact that he was out late on the grog when his partner was about to have his kid, ranks him lowly. If women generally have the same view as my missus then signing him here is not a smart move.

    As unfortunate as it is, some mud sticks but he put himself in that position.

    A very heavy subject for a potential signings thread me thinks.

  9. #1554
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mexican titan View Post
    I agree with you from the legal point. If he is found not guilty then good luck to him.

    The case has been going on for a while and my memory may have faded however my recollection is and what has not been disputed is that he did the deed with that woman and at the time his partner was heavily pregnant. If true, that, in my eyes is he not the sort of bloke we want. From my missus point of view, just the fact that he was out late on the grog when his partner was about to have his kid, ranks him lowly. If women generally have the same view as my missus then signing him here is not a smart move.

    As unfortunate as it is, some mud sticks but he put himself in that position.

    A very heavy subject for a potential signings thread me thinks.
    I think it's worth discussing. Signing De Belin is a very real possibility if he is found not guilty, and there are obviously implications for sponsors if we do. The Warriors and Tigers are already reportedly chasing him in anticipation of a not guilty verdict.

    I'm with you on cheating on his missus. We rejected Corey Norman for personality/character reasons and I wouldn't object if we did the same with De Belin on that basis. However, that is a far cry from rape. Good men saying nothing is how we get activist statistics and the "court of public opinion" running roughshod over actual justice. That's what happened to Brett Stewart, and I would hope that we all as rugby league fans remember his case.

  10. #1555
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    Quote Originally Posted by willhelm View Post
    I think it's worth discussing. Signing De Belin is a very real possibility if he is found not guilty, and there are obviously implications for sponsors if we do. The Warriors and Tigers are already reportedly chasing him in anticipation of a not guilty verdict.

    I'm with you on cheating on his missus. We rejected Corey Norman for personality/character reasons and I wouldn't object if we did the same with De Belin on that basis. However, that is a far cry from rape. Good men saying nothing is how we get activist statistics and the "court of public opinion" running roughshod over actual justice. That's what happened to Brett Stewart, and I would hope that we all as rugby league fans remember his case.
    You are the good man are you. What a legend.
    Yeah well this “good man” says a 4% conviction record for rape and sexual assault Without including the many more that doesn’t make it to court shows it’s geared badly against the survivors.
    So yeh nah.
    Stand up for women and not for perpetrators.
    I’m done with this.
    I’ll let the good man get the last word in if he desires.

  11. #1556
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bods View Post
    You are the good man are you. What a legend.
    Yeah well this “good man” says a 4% conviction record for rape and sexual assault Without including the many more that doesn’t make it to court shows it’s geared badly against the survivors.
    So yeh nah.
    Stand up for women and not for perpetrators.
    And you said I was the one that didn't understand mathematics. You don't start at group-level statistics and work your way backwards to the individual level. The conviction rates for a particular crime should have no bearing on any individual case, much less on the basis of characteristics like gender/race/whatever. Jack De Belin's case should be adjudicated on the facts and evidence of his own case and no one else's. I don't believe the stats you're telling me anyway.

    Some bedtime reading for you, Bods: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone%27s_ratio. Hopefully you can enjoy it with a whiskey tomorrow night.

  12. #1557

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    Quote Originally Posted by willhelm View Post
    I think it's worth discussing. Signing De Belin is a very real possibility if he is found not guilty, and there are obviously implications for sponsors if we do. The Warriors and Tigers are already reportedly chasing him in anticipation of a not guilty verdict.

    I'm with you on cheating on his missus. We rejected Corey Norman for personality/character reasons and I wouldn't object if we did the same with De Belin on that basis. However, that is a far cry from rape. Good men saying nothing is how we get activist statistics and the "court of public opinion" running roughshod over actual justice. That's what happened to Brett Stewart, and I would hope that we all as rugby league fans remember his case.
    So, in summary my position is that if he is found not guilty then no I wouldn't touch him on character grounds. I did some pretty average things as a young bloke as well but I'm not a $600,000 a year footballer in the public eye. Respectable behaviour and respect for people comes with the territory. If you don't want it then go and play club footy.
    Your comments about Brett Stewart was obviously a case I'm well aware of. My contacts back there new right at the outset the family after him had a history of fraud and were just after the cash. It nearly ruined him. Of course it indicates what you have said about innocent until guilty and ideally players should play until the court case, however I support the NRL in the no fault stand down rule. Simply put, rightly or wrongly, supporters and sponsors were departing in droves and the game needed to show that it stood up for women in these situations. There are no winners.
    My last word on the subject. Too heavy for a footy forum on a Friday!

  13. #1558
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mexican titan View Post
    So, in summary my position is that if he is found not guilty then no I wouldn't touch him on character grounds. I did some pretty average things as a young bloke as well but I'm not a $600,000 a year footballer in the public eye. Respectable behaviour and respect for people comes with the territory. If you don't want it then go and play club footy.
    Your comments about Brett Stewart was obviously a case I'm well aware of. My contacts back there new right at the outset the family after him had a history of fraud and were just after the cash. It nearly ruined him. Of course it indicates what you have said about innocent until guilty and ideally players should play until the court case, however I support the NRL in the no fault stand down rule. Simply put, rightly or wrongly, supporters and sponsors were departing in droves and the game needed to show that it stood up for women in these situations. There are no winners.
    My last word on the subject. Too heavy for a footy forum on a Friday!
    Yeah, I'm good with that, MT.

  14. #1559

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    Absolutely no to De Belin even if his charges are magically dropped due to “lack of evidence”. If he’s found not guilty then fair enough and good luck to him but I still wouldn’t want him no matter what and I would legitimately consider my support if he was signed. Not the sort of character you want hanging around the club that’s for sure.

    Anyway like MT said it’s a heavy subject and probably could go back and forth forever so instead let’s bring on tomorrow’s game!

  15. #1560

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    A big never to de belin from me. I remember hearing some of the details and they were pretty bad. Even if he is not convicted, where there is smoke there's fire and the club doesn't need that type of publicity. Just look at lodge and the Broncos.
    On another note, I'm going to hope that the dragons would miraculously want to take Wallace and Boyd off our hands. We would need someone to turn pig**** into strawberry jam, but it would be good. Even one of them would be ok with me.


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