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  1. #1
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    Default 2020 Roster Speculation

    G'day fellas. With all that's going on, I thought it might be a good time to start up a thread on roster speculation for next year. I know there's a lot of turmoil at the moment but in a salary-capped system, such troubling times can often be a blessing in disguise as they provide the opportunity for introspection, the identification and cutting of deadwood, and general future planning/proofing. Just look at the Knights -- they were in a far worse predicament than we are currently in having won 3 wooden spoons in a row and with fewer promising juniors coming through. After several years of heartache, they now have a top quality roster including one of the best halfbacks in the game in Mitchell Pearce, the best front rower in the game in David Klemmer, and the next big thing in Kalyn Ponga. I know that we are currently caught up in the media maelstrom but it will move on in time and we have a good core of youngsters (Arrow, Brimson, Fotuaika, Kelly, Whitbread, even Ash Taylor once he gets his head right under a good coach) as well as some top juniors coming through in the next year or two (Tanah Boyd, Treymain Spry, Darius Farmer).

    So, with that said, I wanted to provide a bit of optimism and discuss what we think our roster will look like next year. All good to include new recruits who you think we should target but please be realistic, i.e. no James Tedesco or DCE. Please also consider contracts, i.e. while it's fine to suggest we should try to find a way to release someone like Shannon Boyd, don't assume it will be possible. To start us off, here's my first choice 17:

    Coach: Justin Holbrook

    1. AJ Brimson
    2. Dane Gagai {new recruit}
    3. Kallum Watkins
    4. Brian Kelly
    5. Dale Copley
    6. Tyrone Roberts (gk)
    7. Ash Taylor
    8. Moeaki Fotuaika
    9. Nathan Peats (vc)
    10. Ryan James (c)
    11. Bryce Cartwright
    12. Kyle Turner {new recruit}
    13. Jai Arrow

    14. Matt Parcell {new recruit}
    15. Jarrod Wallace
    16. Jai Whitbread
    17. Keegan Hipgrave

    Backup backs: Treymain Spry, Phillip Sami, Anthony Don {new recruits required - maybe Herbie Farnworth from the Broncos?}
    Backup halves: Tanah Boyd, {new recruit required - no idea who other than maybe Jamal Fogarty}
    Backup hookers: Mitch Rein
    Backup forwards: Shannon Boyd, Leilani Latu, Kevin Proctor, Sam Stone, Darius Farmer

    This is a total of 27 players, so 3 new recruits or upgraded juniors/development players will be required in addition to the three new recruits I have already proposed.

    Release/leaving/retiring:
    • Tyrone Peachey (chief stonekicker can head back to Penrith if he is willing to take a paycut, else stick him in reserves until he does)
    • Brenko Lee (shoddy defense with no signs of improvement; will never fulfil his potential)
    • Ryley Jacks (least creative halfback I have ever seen; just making up numbers)
    • Jack Stockwell (the very definition of a plodder)
    • Will Matthews (no comment required)
    • Michael Gordon (love him but time for the old man to retire)
    • Jesse Arthars (enjoy never getting a run behind the plethora of centre & wing options at the Broncos)


    General comments:
    • The biggest gap in our roster is a metre-eating winger. Someone like Corey Oates or Blake Ferguson would be the dream, but they are obviously not attainable. Instead, I propose we go after Dane Gagai as he appears to be surplus to requirements at Souths. Only issues I can see are that he will command top coin (around 700k/yr I believe) and may agitate to play centre instead of wing.
    • I was ecstatic when we signed Nathan Peats back in 2016 and, while his form has been well down this year and last, I believe that he will come good again under a better coach. He's the leader of our forward pack and we desperately need a core group of experienced players to lead the team and take as much pressure off Ash Taylor as possible. For me, this has to be Peats, James, Wallace and Roberts with Arrow being groomed for future leadership.
    • I prefer Wallace off the bench to provide a bit of spark and go forward around the 20 min mark. MoFo is a future superstar and imo is second only to Payne Haas in the rankings of next gen props, so I want him starting with James to lock down the middle of the park with Peats and Arrow in the first 20. Wallace will probably kick up a stink about losing his starting jersey, so this will be the first big test of the new coach's resolve and man managing abilities.
    • I've seen some positive comments about Jack Stockwell during match threads but I really don't see what everyone else does. To me, he is the distilled essence of plod, and I want him as far from the Gold Coast as possible.
    • I like the aggression and energy that Hipgrave brings to the team (when fit) so have kept him as a bench player. He's also versatile and can cover the middle or edge. He seems to have gotten some of the boneheadedness and errors under control and has a lot of improvement left in him. He was hot property last time he was off contract for good reason.
    • I am confident that Tyrone Peachey will leave at season's end, so I left him out of the team. I just can't see the new coach carrying such an ungrateful sod and allowing him to undermine the team culture. I'm certain that Mick Gordon's recent comments about players being free to leave if they don't want to be here were alluding to the Peach.
    • Having Carty on that right edge with Ash Taylor would provide a creative threat that I believe would require extra attention from defenders (relative to the predictable, one-dimensional Proctor) and would give Ash some extra breathing room to bring back that deadly short kicking game that we know he has. Honestly, this is Ash's biggest weapon and the new coach should be figuring out what the hell happened to it and how to bring it back.
    • Apart from Peachey, the players I have listed for releases don't command a huge amount, so it may not be possible to get Gagai. Turner and Parcell wouldn't be hugely expensive though, and I believe would provide good bang for buck. In Turner's case, he's a good kid who has had a rough run with injuries but you know he will put in 100% no matter what, which is exactly what we need for the culture we are trying to build. Parcell is an Ipswich boy so may be persuaded by the opportunity to live closer to home (though I note from Instagram that, like a typical millennial, he appears to be having a ball travelling around Europe). Jake Turpin is a good alternative to Parcell as @NZFan suggested previously but I think he would command a higher salary and there would be more competition for him.


    Thoughts?
    Last edited by willhelm; 22-07-19 at 11:56 AM.

  2. #2
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    Interesting read. Agree with most of your comments.
    I think it is time to retire Shannon Boyd and Copley is never going to give us more than half a season in terms of games.
    Tyrone Roberts is rocks and diamonds, more rocks and very rare diamonds, kicks in general play are rubbish, i have marked his card and time to make space.
    Hopefully we can offload Latu as well as he takes up a big chunk of salary cap.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcboyz View Post
    Interesting read. Agree with most of your comments.
    I think it is time to retire Shannon Boyd and Copley is never going to give us more than half a season in terms of games.
    Tyrone Roberts is rocks and diamonds, more rocks and very rare diamonds, kicks in general play are rubbish, i have marked his card and time to make space.
    Hopefully we can offload Latu as well as he takes up a big chunk of salary cap.
    I would be thrilled if we could move Latu on without paying too much freight. Whatever potential he once had has gone down the drain with his (reported) lack of work ethic. I have included Latu, Proctor, Don and Copley in the squad because they are all contracted until the end of 2020. While we could realistically cut one, maybe two of them, and pay some of their contract at their new Super League club, we won't be able to cut all four.

    Shannon Boyd is an interesting one. He is contracted until the end of 2022 on 600k, which is a huge chunk of the salary cap for someone who offers 20 mediocre minutes per week. You seem to be hinting at a medical retirement, which isn't all that unrealistic given his concussion and subsequent migraine problems. The Eels benefited greatly from Watmough's medical retirement and with the recent focus on CTE, perhaps we can do the same with Boyd.

    I agree with you on Tyrone Roberts' ability but I can't see him going anywhere anytime soon given that he is contracted for the 2020 season. With a fit and firing Ash Taylor, I think we can afford to carry Tyrone in the team due to his goalkicking abilities and occasional diamonds. There aren't many other halves of his experience off contract at the end of this year, so unless we forego signing Gagai and instead go for James Maloney while trying to force Tyrone out of the final year of his contract (this could also bite us in the butt if we want to persist with Ash as our halfback), I think he's our best option. For Ash to reach his potential, he will need another season or two alongside a more experienced half who can ease the pressure. Tyrone fits the bill and we get plenty of other creativity out of Ash, AJ, Brian Kelly, and even Carty. A left-field option would be Benji Marshall to play 5/8 and mentor Ash for two years but I can't see him taking his swansong away from the Tigers and I still prefer Tyrone.

    I realise we all want to hit the reset button but we can't panic and try to start from scratch. I think we have plenty of quality in our roster already and a good coach would have this team hovering around the bottom of the 8. Do what we can for 2020 while not screwing ourselves financially then release Latu, Proctor, Don and Copley and sign some new blood for 2021. Any rebuild won't happen overnight.

  4. #4

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    Good threat mate, enjoying your posts. Obviously it's hard to predict as our game of rugby league is a funny one where things always change and pop up. However my dream squad for 2020 being as realistic as possible would be:

    Strongest 1-17:
    1. AJ Brimson
    2. Phillip Sami (left)
    3. Brian Kelly (left)
    4. Kallum Watkins (right)
    5. Dale Copley (right)
    6. Ty Roberts
    7. Ash Taylor
    8. Jarrod Wallace
    9. Nathan Peats
    10. Ryan James (C)
    11. Alex Glenn (left) - new recruit
    12. Bryce Cartwright (right)
    13. Jai Arrow (VC)

    14. Mitch Rein
    15. Mo Fotuaika
    16. Jai Whitbread
    17. Kurt Capewell - new recruit


    Backup CTW:
    Anthony Don, Treymaine Spry, Hymel Hunt (new recruit)

    Backup Halves:
    Tanah Boyd, Ryley Jacks (cheap and worst case if others go down)

    Backup Forwards:
    Darius Farmer, Shannon Boyd, Leilani Latu, Sam Stone, Kevin Proctor, Keegan Hipgrave


    Gains
    Alex Glenn - I have always been a big fan of his. Coming to the end of his career but still playing solid footy and could offer some much needed experience to the younger forwards. No frills player who holds his own and gets through the hard work. Also a specialist left side second rower which allows Cartwright to do the flashy stuff on his preferred right side
    Kurt Capewell - One who we have been linked to and I hope we get for a reasonable price. A utility who can play second row, wing, centre or lock and can play them all solidly. Would take him if Brisbane want to re-sign Glenn as he could also fill that left edge for us. Future SOO player for Queensland.
    Hymel Hunt - A former under 20's player for us and we know the club is trying to reconnect with a lot of former GC juniors. I do have him outside the top 17 and he may be reluctant as he is starting at Newy but there are a few centres at the Knights fighting for spots.

    Losses
    Will Matthews
    Jack Stockwell
    Tyrone Peachey
    Brenko Lee
    Jesse Arthars
    Michael Gordon


    Conclusion
    -Tried to be as realistic as possible, and I think unfortunately we are stuck with the majority of our big $ contracts. However, Peachey seems a definite to leave and I'm sure there will be some Sydney club who picks him up and thinks they can get the best out of him. Would love the club to offload Proctor somehow but they seem to love him and see something in him that we don't. Aside from his defence he is just making up the numbers and offers nothing in attack.

    -Either Glenn or Capewell would be good however I hope we can secure both. One is an experienced 250 game player who brings a wealth of experience which is something we have missed this year especially in tight games, and the other is a guy coming into the prime of his career who is on the cusp of Origin. Both would add something we are lacking in the team and would make us stronger. Can't see the Broncos being able to retain Glenn unless he stays loyal for a lowball offer and he lives on the GC anyway from memory. Capewell has been pushed to the bench for the Sharks and they have some big money tied up in forwards in Cronulla so not sure they can afford to keep him. Both should only be offered 200-300k at most though, we don't want to pay overs.

    -Agree willhelm that we are really lacking a good winger that can eat up the metres. Oates would be perfect but will be commanding 600k+ and we simply couldn't afford him. Unfortunately looks like we are stuck with Copley and Sami, as there are not many wingers off contract. A sneaky one is Jordan Rapana who is off contract however I can't see the Raiders losing a crowd favourite like him. Would love Gagai to play on the wing but I doubt he leaves Souths unless he can play centre and I don't think he's worth good money in the centres. Unless he's homesick for QLD, I don't think we can get him.

    -Agree with most other things you said. Really hope this next coach can bring the best out of Ash again as we need him fit and firing and confident. A halfback is too crucial of a position to be missing and currently we have Jacks there who just isn't the same and the team is lacking.

  5. #5
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    Agree with a lot of that also but I think you're doing the bare minimum in terms of getting rid of players.

    Firstly, I realise that we stupidly signed Don to two more years last year (albeit on minimum coin) but he's just blocking pathways for juniors now. As gcboy said, Copley is far two injury prone as well - I think a super league switch could possibly be a good move for him at this stage of his career. Despite Latu playing well last weekend he should go because he is on way too much coin - again a super league switch could be on the cards as no other NRL team will touch him for that price. I also think we could push Rein out the door with the promise that he will only be playing QCup here and he can probably fetch better money elsewhere after this years performances. Without getting rid of Rein I don't think we can attract another hooker either. Lastly and most importantly, the first player I would be pushing out the door is Roberts. I'm with you in the fact that I think Ash will bounce back but that will never happen when Roberts is around. We gave Ash everything this year including his best mate and favourite coach and it backfired. He's got to run the team himself and he has to be made responsible for it as well. It is beyond me how Roberts was ever made captain.

    I'd also like to keep Gordon on minimum coin as well. The reason for this is two-fold - he'll obviously provide some back up if injury hits but he can also mentor AJ in terms of supporting the ball carrier and playing in and around the ruck. Brennan did extremely well at coaching this play out of both of these players with his horrible side to side game plan. Gordons strength has always been in and around the ruck and could bounce things of AJ to improve his game. Also for minimum coin, I think just keeping Mick for his professionalism would be money well spent.

    As for Gagai, I'll pass mate. His price his far two high and he plays his best games for State. Not only that but he has been very vocal about not wanting to play wing. If we were going to spend 4-500k on a winger I'd go hard for Rapana but I'm not sure if we should be spending that much on that position. We definitely do need someone to start our sets properly though and we need specialised wingers who will commit to scoring and finishing tries. I'd be looking at bringing Troy Leo up from Burleigh and blooding him as first cab of the rank at some point during the season. I think Spry will possibly get a start on one of the wings next year as Watkins and Kelly will be in the centres, which I'd be happy about.

    For next year I'd personally be looking to recruit from within and start to re-align our roster. Getting rid of all of Brennans dead weight will be start and then after that begin to make bigger purchases again. Apart from a decent five eight, I think we can fill most positions with local talent and the existing squad.

  6. #6
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    @BT

    I'd be stoked with Glenn and/or Capewell, but preferably the latter due to age and potential. With Glenn I'm just not sure if his heart would be fully in it given that he has, from memory, been quite dismissive of previous talks of moving to the Titans. I don't think his living situation is a big issue for him as he has been commuting for a long time. Capewell, on the other hand, knows that his name has been thrown around for Origin selection and would have something to play for other than retirement.

    The Hymen Hunter is a good suggestion too. Not too expensive and has links from his junior days. Can play either wing or centre but I believe he mostly plays left side, so would be competing with Kelly whom I have big wraps on. I think Coppers has been very good for us on the left wing this year and would be happy for him to play there next year if we can get a metre eater on the right wing. I guess Watkins is the wildcard here because if he turns out to be a good acquisition then it would give us the freedom to sign someone like Jordan Rapana (fantastic suggestion). Two other metre-eating wingers who have been in and out of their respective teams this year are Josh Mansour and David Nofoaluma but both are locked up until the end of 2021 and would likely require a player trade for which we would not have much leverage.

    Phillip Sami should really be working hard to turn into an Oates-style winger. He has the physique for it but I don't know if he has the drive or general smarts to get there. His body language does not portray a confident footy player to me, but a good coach could make all the difference.

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    @NZFan

    Re: Don, Copley, Latu and Rein, I'm with you if we can move them on without paying too much. However, I don't see them being in high demand and was therefore conservative in my approach. I think we keep them as backups, or in Copleys case as our left winger until he inevitably gets injured, at which point Sami comes in. I don't think Don has dropped off all that much from previous years; I think the problem is that we just aren't utilising his finishing abilities so he looks much worse than he is. He is still safe as houses under the high ball. That said, I don't think we can carry both him and Copley as our wingers, and I would move Don on before Copley.

    Re: Gordon, I like the idea if he is open to it, but he has been wanting to retire for a couple of years now, hasn't he? Totally agree on the points about Brennan's awful structures that have minimised their strengths around the ruck.

    Re: Gagai, fair enough and you and BT have convinced me that we should be trying very hard for Jordan Rapana for that right wing spot instead of Gagai. I hope we don't go for his soul mate BJ Leilua though. Troy Leo I don't know enough about but I know he is quite popular on this forum. Spry will likely come in at some point next year but for now I want someone who has proven themselves in first grade. I think the game has changed to the point where you must carry a $4-500k metre-eating winger if you want to be competitive. Just look at what Fergo has done for Parra, or how poorly the Broncos play without Oates.

    There was talk about Will Chambers potentially coming here but I don't like his attitude and he's apparently on 700k at the Storm. I think signing Watkins has knocked that on the head anyway.

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    The game definitely has changed but there just isn't that many wingers on the market at the moment. The problem I have with Sami is that I think he has got cocky after last season. I remember watching them warm up on the sideline down in Cronulla earlier in the year. The subs were running up and down the sidelines passing the ball back and forth and Sami took himself off and started practising that shuffle step he does. Also in the weekend he tried that cross field kick like he did last year for Don. He has done that three our for times since then and it hasn't worked again since. If he is going to stay then he needs time in QCup working on the basics again but I wouldn't mind seeing him leave for another junior to be given a go.

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    Agree mate, his head has gotten too big. That’s a coaching issue though and hopefully Mr. Holbrook will tell him some harsh truths instead of taking him tenpin bowling.

  10. #10

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    Great thread guys but if I responded in the length of some above I'd be still typing at sun up.

    From Bundy Titan's top 17 I have copied below and added my thoughts:

    Strongest 1-17:
    1. AJ Brimson - agreed
    2. Phillip Sami (left) - nope. hasn't shown enough and will not run hard despite his frame. If Rapana was a chance, grab him.
    3. Brian Kelly (left) - agreed. Has played solidly this year. manly put some good finish in to him!!
    4. Kallum Watkins (right) - well we signed him so I just have to see how he goes, hopefully better than other Poms we have had
    5. Dale Copley (right) - perhaps, if nothing better comes up
    6. Ty Roberts - let him go. As others have said too many rocks. His recent efforts have been poor and needs to get away from Ash
    7. Ash Taylor - prepared to give him one more try but I'm starting to think he'll never get there
    8. Jarrod Wallace - agreed
    9. Nathan Peats - huge disappointment and a major position we need to recruit for. Done nothing for two seasons now.
    10. Ryan James (C) - plodder in my book but might go ok with better players around him. Should not be captain.
    11. Alex Glenn (left) - new recruit - best days behind him. Coming for a pension.
    12. Bryce Cartwright (right) - improved slightly but playing nothing like his wage. Doubt if he will get back to what he was while playing here.
    13. Jai Arrow (VC) - must keep and should be captain

    14. Mitch Rein - as per Peats. Tries but not great at NRL level. Spent time comparing both hookers when both are not that good
    15. Mo Fotuaika - has gone a bit quiet but very young. Star of the future I hope
    16. Jai Whitbread - worth keeping and hopefully would go better with stronger forwards around him
    17. Kurt Capewell - new recruit - would be a good buy

    Jacks and Latu have nothing. I'd love Hipgrave to develop but I think he's just a dumb footballer and any strong coach will rightly dump him.
    Thanks for the thread, great reading guys.

  11. #11

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    Definitely agree with a lot of what you said MT and, especially with our outside backs, I wasn’t happy typing a few of those names but we are a bit strapped for options. There’s not too many wingers on the market and not many coming through so we might be stuck with what we’ve got. Also I want to get rid of a lot of guys too but it’s not realistic to think we can clear Latu, Peachey, Roberts, Proctor and Boyd early from their deals all in one season. We would be paying a fortune with the amount we are paying for them to play elsewhere so it looks like we are stuck with most of them for a while yet.

    Looks like Rapana is getting tabled a monster offer by Canberra as reported tonight so looks like he’s out of the running. Also agree to disagree with Glenn as I still think he’s playing above average footy and would be a definite improvement on what we’ve got. But other than that it’s hard to predict what signings we might get from players breaking deals and in rugby league that seems to happen a fair bit!!!

  12. #12

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    These guys are off contract at the end of 2019. So I would not re-sign them.
    1 Stockwell - Alvaro give him a life line
    2 Jacks - Lachlan Lewis might be just a little bit more but worth it
    3 Gordon - Rapana bring him back home
    4 Mathews - Kurt Capewell
    5 Arthars - Mulitalo up and coming centre
    6 Lee - Ramien on the outer but i good coach would get him back in form
    Peats - Reed Mahoney this would be hard to pull off

    This would be my starting team 2020
    1 AJ
    2 Watkins just to see how he plans out maybe swap with Kelly
    3 Kelly
    4 Ramien
    5 Rapana
    6 Lewis
    7 Taylor only cuz he to much to off load
    8 Mofo his effort this year he should be starting
    9 Mahoney
    10 James
    11 Capewell or Stone
    12 Cartwright or Proctor
    13 Arrow (C)
    14 Alvaro
    15 Wallace
    16 Stone or Cartwright or Capewell
    17 rotate SPRY, , T BOYD, FARMER
    Boyd Peachy Latu I would be looking to off load some how even if we could get 400 for Boyd 300 for Latu and 500 for Peachy
    Boyds money could go to keep Arrow Latu money could be used for bring up local players and Peachy well be good just to have for a pick up mid season

  13. #13
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    I'll post this in this thread as there seems to be some differing opinions as to when contracts are up.



    CO stands for club option
    PO stands for Player option

    - - - Updated - - -

    So for me, looking at the end of this year.

    Jesse has gone
    I'd give Copley permission to look elsewhere
    Don is on minimum so be it
    Gordon came here to retire so goodbye and thanks
    Hipgrave can negotiate with other clubs
    Jacks, not going to cut my nose off in spite of my face just yet
    Latu, negotiate with other clubs and actively find him another home
    Lee, bye bye
    Matthews, never again in a billion years
    Peachey, to Penrith
    Proctor, negotiate with other clubs
    Stockwell, enjoy bricklaying or whatever else you're not good at
    Stone, current coaches seemed happy with his performance. Not sure because barely paid attention to the game
    Watkins, weird that he would sign for the rest of the year with nothing ahead. Regardless, money could be better spent, but Mal hired him so I'm guessing it'll be another 5 year contract soon


    As for who to bring in? Juniors that are cheap and suck rather than other clubs expensive rubbish that sucks.

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    I think that's an error re: Watkins' contract. Dan Walsh reported it was until the end of 2021: https://www.nrl.com/news/2019/06/15/...ional-watkins/

    As for the others, brutal but honest. Only ones I would disagree on are Hipgrave and Copley. Hipgrave has been held back by injuries but I still believe he has the potential to be a decent bench player. Copley has been more than serviceable on the left wing and I would keep him there for next year while Sami pulls his head in and bulks up.

    Need to see more from Stone before I can make a proper assessment but it looked to me like the effort was there on the weekend. He played 59 mins for 88 metres from 12 runs (25 PCM), 30 tackles (5 missed), 2 offloads, 0 errors. The missed tackles are a worry but he has only been training with us for a couple of weeks so I expect that to improve. What I'm looking for right now is effort and I think I saw it.

  15. #15
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    Hipgrave is a marked man as far as the refs are concerned now. He's a fifita or JWH so he's never going to get a call going for him. Injuries are an issue but you'd expect that from a brutal player. Copley has had too many half games and no games for me to think of him as anything but a liability. This week he'll probably score a couple against his old team but it's the week in week out consistency we need.


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