NRL Expansion

[Ryan]

I thought your angle was about the Bears not being the only capable bid to set up without any NRL assistance.

It was, until you gave up on that. The new subject is the effect two new teams will have on the player pool.

The Super League has come closer and closer to the NRL in recent years with a few players that have played both saying there isn't that much difference between the competitions anymore apart from the intense media attention in the NRL. The players in the Super League could definitely make and be competitive in the NRL. Also the recent tide of English players coming here like Ellis, Flanagan and the two Burgess brothers. There is also talk of Sam Tomkins, Kyle Eastmond and James Graham coming to the NRL, there will definitely be able to fill at least another two teams.

Irrevelant. The 100+ ex-NRL ESL players you sprung off the top of your head turned out to be about 13 good players and 26 retirees or 2nd rate players.
Tomkins, Eastmond, the Burgess' and Flanagan are all young developing players with little experience - who are no guarentee of coming over.

[DIEHARD]

I think you have both made great points. Maybe just focus on the positives of each of the bids.

Hopefully any new club coming in will have some Poms signed. The Titans did it with Richie Mathers. It didn't work out with injuries, but I was delighted we did. We also moved to sign Carney, but of course he backed out.

So the Titans certainly did have a British (Well Irish in Carney's case) recruitment strategic in those initial stages.

[onlooker]

It was, until you gave up on that. The new subject is the effect two new teams will have on the player pool.

I didn't even know you replied to that, just saw it now.

Irrevelant. The 100+ ex-NRL ESL players you sprung off the top of your head turned out to be about 13 good players and 26 retirees or 2nd rate players.
Tomkins, Eastmond, the Burgess' and Flanagan are all young developing players with little experience - who are no guarentee of coming over.

George Burgess is already here, There is still over 1000 former NRL players in the ESL. With 40 odd capable of being competitive in the NRL today. Plus you add into the mix guys like Shotayne Hape who plays for England international team in Union. There is plenty of players to fill half of two extra teams with the other half of both teams full of local talent and that is what we are aiming at for the NRL.

[Ryan]

I didn't even know you replied to that, just saw it now.

George Burgess is already here, There is still over 1000 former NRL players in the ESL. With 40 odd capable of being competitive in the NRL today. Plus you add into the mix guys like Shotayne Hape who plays for England international team in Union. There is plenty of players to fill half of two extra teams with the other half of both teams full of local talent and that is what we are aiming at for the NRL.

You are pulling figures from your ass.
2010 ESL rules state each team must have a maximum of 6 overseas trained players in their top 25. Do the maths: 14 teams x 6 overseas players = 84 overseas players in the ESL at the absolute maximum. As of 2011 there will be no more than 70 overseas trained players in the ESL. It's common knowledge that the ESL is the NRL's retirement village, so take the amount of retirees out of that figure, then take out the players who couldn't attract an NRL contract - what are you left with? If you are still thinking 40 odd - then name them. Make us laugh.
Now you are trying to include English Union players? Thats getting desperate.......

[onlooker]

Finally a post with a little bit of substance!

The bid membership price, whether it be $20 or $40 is still trivial. $40 is the average hourly wage up here. While some more suporters may have forked out more - 4,200 members out of a claimed population catchment of 750,000 is a bleak 0.55% considering they only had to cough up a $40 minimum to show support.

nearly 5,000 (todays total 4,775) who pay money for membership that include admission to 0 games and no guarantee there will be a team there in the future. If the Bears get admitted into the NRL that number of membership will rise significantly when the categories contain more merchandise that by that will be NRL official merchandise (now all you get is about 3 things and a card) and when special team events contain more then just 'member only' e-mails.

Currently there is only three ways to get membership:
1. Internet - not everybody has the internet.
2. Membership drive - if you happen to be lucky enough to be in the right area at the right time.
3. Bears HQ - which not everybody is able to get to.

When there is a promise of a team, add member only events, NRL official merchandise and 12 games a year then the number will be high enough to challenge teams with highest member totals. Bringing up a percentage of the total population on a member:resident ratio is ignorant of facts.

Our whole discussion here is based on bids being self sustainable - in which you claimed the CC Bears being the only one and I asked why. It has taken this long for you to directly respond to that with something other than opinion.

Bull****, it's taken this long to come up with a response that isn't easly swept under the table.

In the meantime, I was giving information of what the CQ bid already has and demographical details of how it could financially sustain itself should it be accepted.

You gave no facts about the CQ bid, only population stats that is easily picked up anywhere. You had nothing on sustainability or business plan.

The info on the CC bid you have now highlighted is great; the community involvement, grass roots campaigning, financial backing, ect - which is great. But you havent outlined anything the CC Bears has, that the CQ Bid doesn't.

Really? Show me the CQ's membership tally and already build stadium and merchandise. (apart from the four/five caps that the bid team has).

You haven't given any valid reasoning why the CQ Bid couldn't sustain itself - thus you still haven't justified your original statement of why the Central Coast Bears are the only capable bid to be able to set themselves up with no help from the NRL, while the NRL goes and helps the set up of the WA Reds.

That is incorrect, apart from the past after the last comma.

As for the ALF push into Sydney,

The little alien from the 80s?

that will only have a negative effect on every Sydney club including the CC Bears. The market in Sydney is at capacity; 9 RL teams, 2 AFL teams plus the Union and Soccer outfits, then not far North of Sydney you have yet another NRL & soccer team.

20% of NSW's total population (that is the biggest population of any state in Australia) is totally unprotected by the NRL. Manly can not represent the North Shore or the Central Coast because those areas have regretted them. It is little wonder why the AFl is targeting this population that is 1/5 of NSW population to have this area not covered is not acceptable.

The CC bid cannot guarentee the support it needs with that competition in the region, and the paltry 4200 bid members does not help the argument that it can. Gallops request for the percentage of current members locallity, endorse the high consideration of local competition. Also take into account that the Manly & Newcastle crowd attendances are at the bottom of the ladder as it is.

Exactly the reason why those two teams need a local team to play local derbies against. This will help out every club in the NRL and not least Newcastle and Manly teams. re-read the post i already had this covered and answered.

As a comparison; CQ has no national sporting team at all within a 600km radius, absolutely no competition for the support of the population catchment of 650,000.

and a saturated population where there is no promise the team will have a high level of support (or a place to play at) and without other codes within the area, there is no real push to get high crowd levels when the team is not going so well on the field because of the lack of other codes. When other codes are there the crowds will show up anyway to show that this is the sport that rules this area. ?f you dont have that then you won't end up with high crowd numbers when the team is doing badly.

The CQ bid is at no risk of having to compete with any code, let alone competition from within our own. That itself, is just one reason why CQ Bid is not only capable of sustaining itself, but more capable than the CC bid.

Already answered and corrected.

Some questions I have for the CC bid region:
What makes it a wealthy region? How is money generated in that region ie. industry, mining, commerce??

I am not a CC local so i couldn't tell you how the area is wealthy from that stand point, but the people of the area are very wealthy. People live there because it arguably has the best coast line of NSW. It is also a great holiday destination which come to think about it probably generates a high level of the wealth of the area within the holiday seasons. Outside of the holiday seasons it is a business section that brings in the wealth.

The only reason wealth should be brought into the factor is if the areas local can't afford to go to games which will not be a problem for any of the bids with maybe the exception of Ipswich.

What are the population demographics ie. percentages of families, age groups, percentage that are interested in any football codes etc???

Interest across all codes, it is widely believed that the North shore up makes up the mahority of both the NSW Warpaths and the Sydney Swans, obviously impossible to prove with a source but that is how it is.

You clearly stated how the CC bid is commited to the region (which I dont question), but how commited is the region to the CC bid?

In 2010 the Central Coast District Rugby League changed their stance and joined the bid and now are actively promoting the CC Bears. They had stalls at junior Rugby League matches and official days. They Also held stalls at most of the 2010 Central Coast Centurions (Knights NSW feeder) matches for the CC Bears. The CCDRL has also told Manly to get out of its area and to stop taking CC juniors while paying unders for players time and Central Coast facilities. There was a article about the CCDRL blowing up deluxe at Manly for making a deal without the CCDRL permission with Berkeley Vale HQ. Manly were paying Berkeley Vale about $50 a week for use of their facilities and gave them a signed jersey. CCDRL see this as paying unders for the region and cheapening the whole area of the Central Coast. There has even been talk about merging the Central Coast and North Sydney Junior Rugby League competitions. Bluetongue stadium is half owned by the Bears (who built it for their use) that the Central Coast Runs. The Central Coast Centurions are run by the CCDRL in the SG ball and HW cups (no connection with newcastle for these comps) and have shown the high level of quality and number of juniors coming out of the coast.

You mentioned less than 50 sponsors all up - what sort of money are these sponsors pledging, and what are the backgrounds of these sponors ie. Small commerce, large commerce, industrial, media, ect???

A wide range of all you have said. Obviously i have no direct access to the deals but the cost of the sponsorship in total is above $18 million. Mortgaage house themselves has devoted $3 million of sponsorship and unwritting the eventual team for $10 million dollars.

Answers above in bold.

The answer to those questions are the key to long & short term sustainablity.

As for tribal rivalries, the CQ bid also has that covered. Current QLD derbies always sellout (or near enough), the CQ bid will add a 4th dimension to that rivalry and add up to another 6 guarenteed high capacity games each year.

What can CQ bring to those rivalries that is currently not existent and more then just another QLD club vs QLD club?

Remembering that the Brisbane vs North Queensland matches were not always popular. They only came real popular after the Cowboys fair tale year into the GF. Ever since then they have been huge. The Cowboys are already one team that covers a large area with a saturated population, bringing another team in imo won't do much for rivalries.

You mentioned two weak teams between the SHB and QLD border, well the CC bid is more and more looking like it would be a third weak team.

if the Bears come in they will be at least as strong as the Gold Coast Titans with the added vale of having North Sydney's long and proud history as well of having the Bears brand.

Having a CC NSW team is not a necessity to Rugby Leagues long term vision of "growing the pie", and it is certainly not the only cable bid of self dependence - if it is a capable bid at all....

We do however need consolidations with our expansion that Gallop has mentioned many times. To be able to say to other codes 'while you guys are doing risky expansion we are expanding and consolidating which gives us a thing like an insurance where the AFL is all or nothing type of approach which the NRL already knows doesn't work.

[onlooker]

You are pulling figures from your ass.
2010 ESL rules state each team must have a maximum of 6 overseas trained players in their top 25. Do the maths: 14 teams x 6 overseas players = 84 overseas players in the ESL at the absolute maximum. As of 2011 there will be no more than 70 overseas trained players in the ESL. It's common knowledge that the ESL is the NRL's retirement village, so take the amount of retirees out of that figure, then take out the players who couldn't attract an NRL contract - what are you left with?.

Obviously you have no idea of times changing, things change and that is obviously not the case anymore to any fans that have any idea about the current situation of the Super league competition.

The English clubs are allowed a minimum of 6 overseas player every year. Players that have played a certain length of time like Randall, Withers and Dorn just of the top of my head are not included under the umbrella of overseas players because they now live there and are not there for the money at the end of the careers. They count as residential players and not overseas player due to the amount of time they spent over there.

Btw, i meant 100 not 1000.

[onlooker]

I think you have both made great points. Maybe just focus on the positives of each of the bids.

Hopefully any new club coming in will have some Poms signed. The Titans did it with Richie Mathers. It didn't work out with injuries, but I was delighted we did. We also moved to sign Carney, but of course he backed out.

So the Titans certainly did have a British (Well Irish in Carney's case) recruitment strategic in those initial stages.

yes and that will also be the case for any future teams.

[DIEHARD]

I've followed both bids very indepth. And I find that both are very impressive and there is alot of substance there. I do believe that the Bears would be viable. I do question the committment of Mortage House though, who have had one foot in and one foot out of Rugby League for years.

But they are doing everything right, even got a merch in Best and Less stores on the CC. Doing grassroots Membership drives.

The CQNRL team are also going from strength to strength and they do a great job with communication. I think they will definitely have the players, that region is a proud Rugby League factory. And I'd be proud to have a salt of the Earth regional rugby league team in the NRL. But while they have committments for stadiums, the Bears already have one built. The CQNRL team need to also get a committment from the State LNP because a change of State government is llate 2011/early 2012.

IMO the Bears have a more advanced bid, CQNRL are behind, but probably have more to offer at the end.

But the threat to both of them is the potential of a new SEQLD team. Sure their bid is light years behind that of the Bears and CQ, but there is a big future for them. Especially under a South Queensland/Western banner taking in Logan, Ipswich, Toowoomba and south Brisbane. It is where alot of the growth for SEQLD will come from, they are Rugby League addicted. Makes sense for Rugby League to have a team there.

[thelwall]

dude look at soccer and how large it is ... if nrl wants to grow as a sport it needs more teams ... the quality will still be there because it will give more people a chance and make less people give up on there dream

[Ryan]

Obviously you have no idea of times changing, things change and that is obviously not the case anymore to any fans that have any idea about the current situation of the Super league competition.

The English clubs are allowed a minimum of 6 overseas player every year. Players that have played a certain length of time like Randall, Withers and Dorn just of the top of my head are not included under the umbrella of overseas players because they now live there and are not there for the money at the end of the careers. They count as residential players and not overseas player due to the amount of time they spent over there.

Btw, i meant 100 not 1000.

ESL teams and their overseas trained players (and their age) as nominated for 2011: The guys in red will be over 30 by 2013. That leaves 20 ex-NRL players, and at first glance I'd say about 16 of those could attract an NRL contract.

Hull FC
Shaun Berrigan - 33
Mark O'Meley - 30
Craig Fitzgibbon - 34
Willie Manu - 31
Epalahame Lauaki - 27

Leeds Rhinos
Brent Webb - 31
Brett Delaney - 26
Danny Buderus - 33
Ben Cross - 33
Ali Lauitiiti - 32

Warrington Wolves
Brett Hodgson - 33
Matt King - 31
Joel Monaghan - 29
Michael Monaghan - 31
Louis Anderson - 26

Bradford Bulls
Marc Herbert - 24
Heath L'Estrange - 26
Glenn Hall - 30
Brett Kearney - 28
Patrick Ah Van - 23

St Helens
Josh Perry - 30
Iosia Soliola - 25
Tony Puletua - 32
Chris Flannery - 31
Francis Meli - 32

Wigan Warriors
Pat Richards - 29
Jeff Lima - 29
Amos Roberts - 31
Brett Finch - 30
Ryan Hoffman - 27

Castleford Tigers
Rangi Chase - 25
Ryan McGoldrick - 30
Dean Widders - 32
Nick Youngquest - 28

Catalans Dragons
Clint Greenshields - 29
Ben Farrar - 25
Setaimata Sa - 24
Scott Dureau - 25
Steven Menzies - 38

Celtic Crusaders
Michael Witt - 27
Jarrod Sammut - 24
Ryan O'Hara - 31
Lincoln Withers - 30
Mark Bryant - 30

Harlequins
Chad Randall - 30
Nicholas Kouparitsas - 27
Chris Bailey - 29
David Howell - 28
Luke Dorn - 29

Hull KR
Blake Green - 25
Michael Dobson - 25
Joel Clinton - 30
Clint Newton - 30
Ben Galea - 33

Huddersfield Giants
David Faiumu - 28
David Fa'alogo - 31
Luke O'Donnell - 31

Salford City Reds
Mark Henry - 30
Jeremy Smith - 30
Ray Cashmere - 31
Luke Swain - 29
Daniel Holdsworth - 27

Wakefield Trinity Wildcats
Ben Jeffries - 31
Glenn Morrison - 35
Daryl Millard - 26
Sam Obst - 31

The guys in red will be over 30 by 2013. That leaves 20 ex-NRL players, and at first glance I'd say 16 could attract an NRL contract.

[Ryan]

nearly 5,000 (todays total 4,775) who pay money for membership that include admission to 0 games and no guarantee there will be a team there in the future. If the Bears get admitted into the NRL that number of membership will rise significantly when the categories contain more merchandise that by that will be NRL official merchandise (now all you get is about 3 things and a card) and when special team events contain more then just 'member only' e-mails.

Currently there is only three ways to get membership:
1. Internet - not everybody has the internet.
2. Membership drive - if you happen to be lucky enough to be in the right area at the right time.
3. Bears HQ - which not everybody is able to get to.

1. Internet - Anyone who won't\can't fork out for internet, won't\can't fork out for membership.
2. Membership drive - If you are leaving exposure to luck, then your membership drive is flawed.
3. Bears HQ - Membership drives should be taken to the people, without expecting any number of people trying to get to the HQ.

When there is a promise of a team, add member only events, NRL official merchandise and 12 games a year then the number will be high enough to challenge teams with highest member totals. Bringing up a percentage of the total population on a member:resident ratio is ignorant of facts.

"..challenge teams with highest member totals" - You are delirious., how can you justify this bid to expect memberships equivelent of Broncos & Rabbitohs. Norths had average crowds between 8500 - 11500 in the 5yrs before they were cut from the comp. The brand has been stale for over a decade.....

Bull****, it's taken this long to come up with a response that isn't easly swept under the table.

My point exactly

You gave no facts about the CQ bid, only population stats that is easily picked up anywhere. You had nothing on sustainability or business plan.

Nor was I asked to give facts about the CQ Bid. The whole discussion was you stating that the CC Bears bid was the only capable one, and me asking you why the CQ bid isn't capable:

This is great news for the WA Reds, as they will also need a lot of the attention of the NRL when starting up this is also great news for the Central Coast Bears because the NRL will need to accept another bid that needs little to help by the NRL in setting up. The only bid capable of that is the Central Coast Bears.

Since when?

Since the NRL has already put them on notice twice in the last two years.

And that makes them the only capable bid?
How is the CQ Bears proposal gonna make any more money than the current NSW clubs, let alone another QLD club?

Who are the CQ Bears?

Central Queer Bears, or maybe just a typo
Regardless, still just another NSW team that the ARLC will have to prop up.
I'd like to know what makes you think they are the "only bid capable"? - Want to elaborate?

I didn't say they were the only capable bid. I said with the high likelihood of the WA Reds getting a team the NRL would have to look towards another bid that could sustain themselves with little to no input by the NRL.

CQ - Good bid but about a year and half behind the Bears, they could possibly be ready to sustain themselves without NRL assistance in 2015/16. But if they were put in in 2013 they would need considerable NRL time that the NRL needs to be giving the WA Team.

How much do you know about their 'sustainability', their business model, their financial backing or even the demographics of the region? The region is the heart of Australias economy without a national sporting team within 600kms of any direction.

If you or anybody else things CQ or Ipswich can start running a club by june/july 2011 that will ready for the 2013 season without NRL assistance then you are dreaming.

Like i have already stated i am across all Bids and most people who are, are of the opinion that the earliest the two QLD bids can make the NRL is 2015. This is from business-Rugby League people this comment.

Ignore it at your will but having a Queensland-centric view on it won't help either QLD Rugby League Bids, Which i am as much as a fan of as the Bears and Reds. i just know what will work well for the game of Rugby league in the Current sporting market.

Hardly convincing. You came in here with a pretty big statement saying they "are the only capable bid", in which you are yet to justify that statement with demographic and regional facts. You've praised the CC Bear bid and written off any other bid with nothing more than your own self praise of "I know this & that". You obviously think you are right, so back it up with some reasonable information on why they "are the only capable bid" and the other contenders are "dreaming". You'll need better sources than 'business-Rugby League people' and 'and most people'

My original question is why you originally stated the CC Bears to be the only capable bid(after WA Reds). Try answering with something of substance rather than unsubstantiated opinion.

Still nothing......


Forget the WA REDS, regardless of their requirement for support, you said:
That is what I questioned. That is what you are still yet to answer. You've given your opinion of why you don't think other bids will work, but you are still yet to give any reasons why\how the CC Bears are the only bid capable that needs little help from the NRL in setting up. And you are still yet to give any reason why\how the CC Bears will be anymore profitable than any of the other 9 struggling NSW clubs.
Can you tell us why the CC Bears bid is so strong or cant you?

Our whole discussion here is based on bids being self sustainable - in which you claimed the CC Bears being the only one and I asked why. It has taken this long for you to directly respond to that with something other than opinion. In the meantime, I was giving information of what the CQ bid already has and demographical details of how it could financially sustain itself should it be accepted.

You haven't given any valid reasoning why the CQ Bid couldn't sustain itself - thus you still haven't justified your original statement of why the Central Coast Bears are the only capable bid to be able to set themselves up with no help from the NRL, while the NRL goes and helps the set up of the WA Reds.

The answer to those questions are the key to long & short term sustainablity.

None the less, I did throw in some relevant info to suggest the region could sustain the team, and what the CQ bid had on the board:

CQ bid is personally funded by a $100M construction tycoon who actually offered to buy the Melbourne Storm when the **** hit the fan, also on the board are influential figures like the Chief Executive of the Ports Corporation, Chairman of the Economic & Industry Development Board and the Deputy Mayor of Central Highlands Regional Council. They already have state government commitment to a new stadium based on skilled park. They also already have a $2M\yr naming rights sponors in QR National ontop of another 100 corporate sponsors that are already generating approx $2m with another $1.5m on the way. So as far as having the ability and funds to get things done - they are more than covered.

Right in the center of CQ population, there is already $51B of LNG projects underway as well as two multi-billion dollar expansions of one of the Allumnia refineries, and several more proposals under review like a shale oil plant, steel mill and other LNG projects. This is in addition to the numerous coal mines and ports that account for 70% of Australias coal exports.
The CQ bid is surrounded by multi-billion projects that will sustain millions of wages directly into the local economy - not bypassing the population and going direct to the government coffers.
Find me one other region in Australia that has this economic guarrentee for the next decade +. I bet it wont be CC NSW

The CQ Bid does not offer financial memberships (nor do they need the minimal income it would generate), but the relatively young petition has already gained 25,000 signatures.

Not only does the CQ Bid have http://www.cqnrlbid.com.au/ - but they also have fortnightly communications to all members and petitioners through various mediums like facebook, twitter & email.
They also secured 6-figure media sponsorship deals where they are constantly exposed in the regional media; tv, radio, newspapers, ect.

CQ has no national sporting team at all within a 600km radius, absolutely no competition for the support of the population catchment of 650,000. The CQ bid is at no risk of having to compete with any code, let alone competition from within our own. That itself, is just one reason why CQ Bid is not only capable of sustaining itself, but more capable than the CC bid.

Thats obviously not all the relevant information of what makes the bid sustainable, but it's more than what was asked for. If you want more detailed information, just ask

Really? Show me the CQ's membership tally and already build stadium and merchandise. (apart from the four/five caps that the bid team has).

As I've already posted, CQ Bid does not offer any financial memberships comparable to the Bears. The petition stands at 25,000. I can inquire about the progress of their online membership numbers if you like.
The state government has given written commitment to building a stadium
If the team is announced mid next year like Gallop suggested, thats 18 months to build it - which is viable considering the size of the stadium and the construction industry & resources already in the region.

Merchandise? Really? Has it come down to that?

The little alien from the 80s?

Worry about your own typo's, I'd be here all night if I was to pick them out myself.

Exactly the reason why those two teams need a local team to play local derbies against. This will help out every club in the NRL and not least Newcastle and Manly teams. re-read the post i already had this covered and answered.

That is a flawed theory. Norths had derbies back in the 90's, their home & away crowd averages were around 10,000 for the 5yrs leading up to their dumping.

and a saturated population where there is no promise the team will have a high level of support (or a place to play at) and without other codes within the area, there is no real push to get high crowd levels when the team is not going so well on the field because of the lack of other codes. When other codes are there the crowds will show up anyway to show that this is the sport that rules this area. ?f you dont have that then you won't end up with high crowd numbers when the team is doing badly.

That is a piss-poor assumption. Even without considering the regions high level of interest in NRL, which is proven by TV ratings all year every year - There will never need to be a push for crowds. There is absolutely nothing to do in CQ, no commerce, no sporting events, no festivals - just an industrial region generating alot of money with nowhere to spend it. The crowds will gather simply because there is nothing to do elsewhere, unless you want to travel a minimum 600km to SE QLD or Townsville.

What can CQ bring to those rivalries that is currently not existent and more then just another QLD club vs QLD club?

Remembering that the Brisbane vs North Queensland matches were not always popular. They only came real popular after the Cowboys fair tale year into the GF. Ever since then they have been huge. The Cowboys are already one team that covers a large area with a saturated population, bringing another team in imo won't do much for rivalries.

If thats your perception of rivalries - then how can you justify the CC Bears fairing any better?

The QLD Derby crowd averages over each teams entire history is as follows:
Broncos vs Cowboys
@ Suncorp 32,000
@ Dairy Farmers 25,000
Broncos vs Titans
@ Suncorp 44,210
@ Skilled 26,570
@ Carara 17,209
Cowboys vs Titans
@ Dairy Farmers 17,426
@ Carara 15,206
@ Skilled 20,440

As you can see, Carara Stadium is the only average below 20,000 - but take into account it's limited capacity of about 18,000 (is that correct?)

Can you suggest any valid reason why the QLD derby's popularity wouldn't extend to a fourth team? Add two lots of those numbers to each teams yearly average and it's a contribution to the NRL's overall average attendance that the Bears could only dream of (Another 6 games with attendances ranging between 20,000 - 52,000).

if the Bears come in they will be at least as strong as the Gold Coast Titans with the added vale of having North Sydney's long and proud history as well of having the Bears brand.

Any sort of statistics or facts to actually back that up? At the moment that is nothing more than hopeful.

[Ryan]

The CQNRL team are also going from strength to strength and they do a great job with communication. I think they will definitely have the players, that region is a proud Rugby League factory. And I'd be proud to have a salt of the Earth regional rugby league team in the NRL. But while they have committments for stadiums, the Bears already have one built. The CQNRL team need to also get a committment from the State LNP because a change of State government is llate 2011/early 2012.

Very good point. I think it's a given that Captain Bligh will be walking the plank next time around, and I don't know of any commitment from the LNP in regards to stadium funds.
However, with the growth of economy and population projected and signed off for the next decade in this region - developing infrastructue for health, education and recreation has been on the agenda of all levels of current and previous governments in the region for a few years now. And the CQ bid is the only proposed recreation investment for the region as it stands now, with all levels of government (regional, state & federal) publicly signing their endorsement the for bid.

I might just make a few calls and office visits to verify that, and see if I can get some solid confirmations from all parties. But all the public media releases so far indicate that it is a given.

[DIEHARD]

I might just make a few calls and office visits to verify that, and see if I can get some solid confirmations from all parties. But all the public media releases so far indicate that it is a given.

Very good idea, that sort of boot on the ground campaigning is so vital and usually never realised. Let us know how you go. A few visits, door knocks, letters and phone calls counts.

[onlooker]

1. Internet - Anyone who won't\can't fork out for internet, won't\can't fork out for membership.
2. Membership drive - If you are leaving exposure to luck, then your membership drive is flawed.
3. Bears HQ - Membership drives should be taken to the people, without expecting any number of people trying to get to the HQ.



"..challenge teams with highest member totals" - You are delirious., how can you justify this bid to expect memberships equivelent of Broncos & Rabbitohs. Norths had average crowds between 8500 - 11500 in the 5yrs before they were cut from the comp. The brand has been stale for over a decade.....

My point exactly



Nor was I asked to give facts about the CQ Bid. The whole discussion was you stating that the CC Bears bid was the only capable one, and me asking you why the CQ bid isn't capable:
























None the less, I did throw in some relevant info to suggest the region could sustain the team, and what the CQ bid had on the board:




Thats obviously not all the relevant information of what makes the bid sustainable, but it's more than what was asked for. If you want more detailed information, just ask


As I've already posted, CQ Bid does not offer any financial memberships comparable to the Bears. The petition stands at 25,000. I can inquire about the progress of their online membership numbers if you like.
The state government has given written commitment to building a stadium
If the team is announced mid next year like Gallop suggested, thats 18 months to build it - which is viable considering the size of the stadium and the construction industry & resources already in the region.

Merchandise? Really? Has it come down to that?

Worry about your own typo's, I'd be here all night if I was to pick them out myself.


That is a flawed theory. Norths had derbies back in the 90's, their home & away crowd averages were around 10,000 for the 5yrs leading up to their dumping.



That is a piss-poor assumption. Even without considering the regions high level of interest in NRL, which is proven by TV ratings all year every year - There will never need to be a push for crowds. There is absolutely nothing to do in CQ, no commerce, no sporting events, no festivals - just an industrial region generating alot of money with nowhere to spend it. The crowds will gather simply because there is nothing to do elsewhere, unless you want to travel a minimum 600km to SE QLD or Townsville.


If thats your perception of rivalries - then how can you justify the CC Bears fairing any better?

The QLD Derby crowd averages over each teams entire history is as follows:
Broncos vs Cowboys
@ Suncorp 32,000
@ Dairy Farmers 25,000
Broncos vs Titans
@ Suncorp 44,210
@ Skilled 26,570
@ Carara 17,209
Cowboys vs Titans
@ Dairy Farmers 17,426
@ Carara 15,206
@ Skilled 20,440

As you can see, Carara Stadium is the only average below 20,000 - but take into account it's limited capacity of about 18,000 (is that correct?)

Can you suggest any valid reason why the QLD derby's popularity wouldn't extend to a fourth team? Add two lots of those numbers to each teams yearly average and it's a contribution to the NRL's overall average attendance that the Bears could only dream of (Another 6 games with attendances ranging between 20,000 - 52,000).


Any sort of statistics or facts to actually back that up? At the moment that is nothing more than hopeful.

Yeah whatever mate, you've proven that you are just going to disagree with anything i said. Good thing i know for a fact that the people making the decisions are not thinking along those lines. While you have all that time composing a terribly put together post, i on the other hand do not have that much time to waste so close to Christmas (or any other part of the year really) so feel good or whatever but we'll see what happens.

[Ryan]

Yeah whatever mate, you've proven that you are just going to disagree with anything i said. Good thing i know for a fact that the people making the decisions are not thinking along those lines. While you have all that time composing a terribly put together post, i on the other hand do not have that much time to waste so close to Christmas (or any other part of the year really) so feel good or whatever but we'll see what happens.

This is a discussion forum, how can you expect no disagreements? Did you think you were gonna come on here, spit out your opinion presenting it as fact and then expect everyone to clap along? Why would anyone agree with you just for the sake of it? Four pages into an exhausting discussion and your argument has been little more than what is highlighted in your post above.

The minimal time you have spent is evident in the quality of your posts.
I did spend abit of time & effort dipping into the Rugby League archives, putting forward verifiable demographic information of CQ, and providing statistics relative to our sport and both bids. Had you have done the same you might have had a reasonable argument - but you didn't\couldn't.
Claiming that you have "no time to waste" is laughable

alright guys, i've just joined here so for anybody interested i am a Rugby League fan first and foremost and love seeing League go well, during the offseason i got bored and i was thinking to myself i do not know much about the Titans set up (being in NSW) so thats why i came here for a read.

- you have spent the time making just as many posts as I have. And you had previously stated you don't know much about the Titans setup - yet you claim the CC Bears bid is better? You are giving up now because thats all you can do. Responses like "Yeah whatever mate" & "so feel good or whatever but we'll see" are clear signs of an empty barrel.