NRL Expansion

[titansrawesome]

no more nsw teams, we already have 10 out of 16, for the next 2 we should do W.A and Adelaide, this way we combat the Afl stronghold that they have over in those parts, it also makes rugby league a national game. and we all know that besides the west coast eagles in 06, that W.A haven't been able to cheer for much in Afl for a while.

[DIEHARD]

I think the NRL will expand and they will hedge their bets with an "expansion" club such as the Reds. (Even though its more a re-establishment) and a heartlands club. Either QLD or CCB.

But Ryan's position isn't Queensland centric, it is about striving for overall balance. Yes it is valid to say that the Central Coast does not have a club of it's own, but yet Brisbane and SEQLD was left to just the Brisbane Broncos for many years.

[onlooker]

no more nsw teams, we already have 10 out of 16, for the next 2 we should do W.A and Adelaide, this way we combat the Afl stronghold that they have over in those parts, it also makes rugby league a national game. and we all know that besides the west coast eagles in 06, that W.A haven't been able to cheer for much in Afl for a while.

Adelaide does not have a NRL Bid, Adelaide has already stated that an NRL would not survive there currently. The SANRL have said they would ideally love to have 3 games there a season. The NRL does not have enough money (even with the next TV deal) to support to new areas. WA Reds are currently the favourites.

I think the NRL will expand and they will hedge their bets with an "expansion" club such as the Reds. (Even though its more a re-establishment) and a heartlands club. Either QLD or CCB.

But Ryan's position isn't Queensland centric, it is about striving for overall balance. Yes it is valid to say that the Central Coast does not have a club of it's own, but yet Brisbane and SEQLD was left to just the Brisbane Broncos for many years.

The major concern with Ipswich is it is really struggling to find a identity of its own. They are a Bid that is based in Ipswich that wants to represent other areas such Logan and Toowoomba. If they are called "Ipswich" that would immediately alienate supporters and potential members from those areas close and around Ipswich due to rivalries started in the QLD Cup (seconded strongest competition in the country) and other factors. Calling them West Brisbane or plain of "Western" has a lot of problems. Before you start talking about "West of what?" you have already alienated some of the current Ipswich Jets fans. So if you do keep the name Ipswich and alienate everybody else, Ipswich is not a rich area so would it really give that much back to the game? or will it just boost TV numbers? Call them the Jets and that immediately sets everybody in Sydney (Australia's largest City, and one of the world Largest cities (area wise)). Don't call them the Jets and set everybody in that area offside.

This is a major problem for the bid as the NRL wants a community effort by the team but you are going to have to set offside somebody to get the team and where does the team then do its community work?

They haven't got a stadium, the plan is use Suncorp. Which again adds problems to their identity. People will start to Question are they really a Ipswich team or just a Second Brisbane team called "Ipswich" because it looks pretty when we put dots on a map.

Suncorp itself has a history of turf problems and with over 40 events a year already for the stadium, they want to add another 12 games there. How much can this stadium hold?

The Bid itself can not address any of these identity problems because they are still working on their business plan. The NRL has already stated that they prefer the Gold Coast Titans business plan for new teams. Other bids have adopted that business plans and made slight changes to make it fit into their communities. I find it really difficult to believe that Ipswich can get everything together to submit to the NRL in 2011. Other bids can submit tomorrow.

The NRL have already said they are against just dotting maps. "Rugby league's been down that road and made those mistakes and I wouldn't like to see it make those mistakes again.

"There's nothing worse for your competition than to add teams and have them fall over."

So i don't think the location of any bid should come into play. What does come into play however is community involvement that should stand up against the Gold Coast Titans as a benchmark, Financial backing (which both CC and CQ have), community support and what the bid would bring to the game.

I heard from a mate within the Bears organisation that the article the other week saying NRL clubs don't want Bears is BS. Apparently only 2 teams are against them. NRL clubs will not have power in the IC unless they vote in numbers. So i don't think that would get in the way.

I am a fan into expanding into Queensland however. But i think unlike the first attempts at a Gold Coast team and the South Queensland Crushers we should take our time and do it correctly instead of getting into a rush (or a race) to dot maps and have them fall over in a few years. I rather to see a strong Ipswich NRL club from day dot and a Strong CQ NRL team from day dot instead of watching them struggle for a few years before they receive the support they deserve.

Regardless of any of this, all bids will be matched against the Gold Coast Titans bid and with that fact along with the AFL saying the Titans are their benchmark for the Sun's, Gold Coast Fans (and expansion fans that supported the Titans) should be very impressed with.

[Ryan]

If you or anybody else things CQ or Ipswich can start running a club by june/july 2011 that will ready for the 2013 season without NRL assistance then you are dreaming.

Nothing but a baseless comment of your own.
CQ bid is personally funded by a $100M construction tycoon who actually offered to buy the Melbourne Storm when the **** hit the fan, also on the board are influential figures like the Chief Executive of the Ports Corporation, Chairman of the Economic & Industry Development Board and the Deputy Mayor of Central Highlands Regional Council. They already have state government commitment to a new stadium based on skilled park. They also already have a $2M\yr naming rights sponors in QR National ontop of another 100 corporate sponsors that are already generating approx $2m with another $1.5m on the way. So as far as having the ability and funds to get things done - they are more than covered.

WA's booming economy is the heart of Australia's economy. I hate to break this to you but there is more to Australia then just QLD.

Easy to forget with them being so f kn far away!
WA's economy is based on exports from industry that are far from regional populations.
Right in the center of CQ population, there is already $51B of LNG projects underway as well as two multi-billion dollar expansions of one of the Allumnia refineries, and several more proposals under review like a shale oil plant, steel mill and other LNG projects. This is in addition to the numerous coal mines and ports that account for 70% of Australias coal exports.
The CQ bid is surrounded by multi-billion projects that will sustain millions of wages directly into the local economy - not bypassing the population and going direct to the government coffers.
Find me one other region in Australia that has this economic guarrentee for the next decade +. I bet it wont be CC NSW

Perhaps you shouldn't comment on something you know nothing about then.

The North Shore of Sydney (apart from the peninsula) and the Central Coast is not covered by any NRL team. Efforts by Manly to expand into the North Shore has resulted in failed attempts every time. The most recent attempt was when they spend the 2 weeks school holidays in Hornsby looking to sign up members. After two weeks they signed up zero members. The Central Coast region has repeatedly knocked back half baked attempts by the Newcastle Knights to come into that territory. Why? because the Knights are not active in the Central Coast community. The Bears are and that is why 3/4 of the Central Coast Bears financial membership comes from the Central Coast. Something the NRL wanted to see as the Bears move towards 5,000 members by March, another thing the NRL wanted to see.

Big deal? How does that make the CC bears bid anymore viable than the others? All you've stated is that the region has snubbed any interaction from two other NRL clubs. Less than 5,000 financial members at a stingy $20\yr is paltry. The CQ Bid does not offer financial memberships (nor do they need the minimal income it would generate), but the relatively young petition has already gained 25,000 signatures.

The Titans bid was too deemed not good enough before they went back and made a re-attempt at the bid which the NRL aided in. Or have you forgotten that vital piece of information because it doesn't fit in with your ideals?

I GC Titans are still receiving help from the NRL to this day. It is not a bad things it is just fact.

The Titans are already well established in the comp, with assets that are the envy of the other clubs - they have the runs on the board. How long have the Bears been trying to get back back into the comp???

I have been following Rugby League expansion over three years where i have become familar with all current NRL bids.

Show how much you know, that was taken from all the facts from all the post i have made on the Bears over the past three years on a variety of different social website. But since you managed to bring up the Central Coast Bears official website at least that itself is proof of their continued work in there community. Other Bids website including the WA Reds have not and do not have professional website to keep people up to date with those bids. It is up to activist like myself to find out for ourselves.

Another baseless comment of your own.
Not only does the CQ Bid have http://www.cqnrlbid.com.au/ - but they also have fortnightly communications to all members and petitioners through various mediums like facebook, twitter & email.
They also secured 6-figure media sponsorship deals where they are constantly exposed in the regional media; tv, radio, newspapers, ect.
You claim to be familiar with "all bids" yet you seem to know jack-all about the CQ bid to say the least. I am not an "activist" as you claim to be yourself - yet I know more of the CQ Bid details simply because it is constantly in my face via radio, tv, newspapers, ect.

I am not a Central Coast Bears fan.

Like i have already stated i am across all Bids and most people who are, are of the opinion that the earliest the two QLD bids can make the NRL is 2015. This is from business-Rugby League people this comment.

The only way the Central Coast Bears bid will be knocked back is if expansion itself is held back. That would give time to both QLD bids to bring their bids up level with the Bears and then the Queensland geographical locations will win over.

Hardly convincing. You came in here with a pretty big statement saying they "are the only capable bid", in which you are yet to justify that statement with demographic and regional facts. You've praised the CC Bear bid and written off any other bid with nothing more than your own self praise of "I know this & that". You obviously think you are right, so back it up with some reasonable information on why they "are the only capable bid" and the other contenders are "dreaming". You'll need better sources than 'business-Rugby League people' and 'and most people'

But there is a reason why Gallop was talking about the CQ in terms of "decades" and the Ipswich bid, who hasn't even meet with him yet, as a 'future prospect'.

Old news. Gallop was in CQ two weeks ago, he was quoted saying ?My eyes have been opened. I had no idea of the scale of these activities?.

Ignore it at your will but having a Queensland-centric view on it won't help either QLD Rugby League Bids, Which i am as much as a fan of as the Bears and Reds. i just know what will work well for the game of Rugby league in the Current sporting market.

Once again, nothing more than self praise of your own declared knowledge. My original question is why you originally stated the CC Bears to be the only capable bid(after WA Reds). Try answering with something of substance rather than unsubstantiated opinion.
I've given you a few key demographics suggesting how the CQ bid will be able to sustain its own entry, and few key facts of what they already have on the board. You could make a decent discussion by bring forward some valid data and justify your statement of why they wouldn't be unable to sustain themselves - or you could carry on with more rubbish like:

No Bears = AFL foothold of two teams.

[onlooker]

Alright, you posted a lot of non-sense **** right there.

But instead of pulling it all apart and ripping it to sheds, i will just say i wished the membership i paid for the Bears was only $20.

When i spoke about Gallops comment about decades, that was when he arrived in Sydney after his meetings up in the CQ. Like i said i've being following expansion for three years i obviously wouldn't miss something like that.

Source: http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/...24/3075166.htm
"I guess I already knew about the passion of the people involved in the game up here but the real eye opener for me has been the economic activity, the industry, the plan for the next couple of decades in the area," says David. "Those of us from New South Wales, I don't think we're quite aware of just how big it's going to be up here over the next couple of decades."

What does this say? we have decades to get this bid done correctly.

I spoke to a NRL insider during the visit who had this ti say. "Honestly Gallop visiting CQ for the bid would be just an exercise to show they look as though they have some sort of interest in it.".

Now i will quote one bit from what you have said cause you have gotten it so completely wrong.

"Once again, nothing more than self praise of your own declared knowledge. My original question is why you originally stated the CC Bears to be the only capable bid(after WA Reds)."

The WA Reds are not capable of what i said originally. The WA Reds can not start, sustain n the early years and run a team without NRL assistance. Because of this need the WA Reds have for the NRL assistance. The NRL needs to find another bid that requires no assistance.

Now a team in a area that has never had a national team before does not sound like the ideal spot for this role. If the NRL were to (and one day they will) put a team in CQ then they will monitor it closely. Especially because if this failed, we would be laughing stock to other codes, especially if there expansion into non-heartland areas worked. I speak of the GWS Giants, the GC Suns and the Melbourne Rebels. So that means, from an NRL view that the CQ could no set-up a club with no assistance from the NRL.

Ipswich could possibly do so as they have already teams in QLD competitions. Although it is a big step up into the NRL and the bid team is still working its business plan out. The person to led the Ipswich bid is former Sydney Roosters chief executive Brian Canavan. They need to get their business plan done and sort out their identity circus before the bids are submitted. Then there would be no stopping them.

Wanna laugh at the potential threat of AFL in Sydney? go ahead that is what the AFL is banking on mate.

[onlooker]

The problem with most people is that they are naive and probably think this Current Central Coast Bears bid is the same bid that went up against the GC and Wellington last expansion. Nothing can be further from the truth.

That was led by the Rich Singo, the NRL knocked it back because they do not like the idea of a team being fully backed by a billionaire with the only proof of support being a petition. The Bears have learnt from this and the NEW bid that start in 2007 is a community based bid with local sponsors, members, financial backing. Based off the GC bid plus with added memberships and merchandise selling. And as for Singo, he is in no way involved in the Central Coast Bears bid.

[Ryan]

Alright, you posted a lot of non-sense **** right there.

But instead of pulling it all apart and ripping it to sheds, i will just say i wished the membership i paid for the Bears was only $20.

When i spoke about Gallops comment about decades, that was when he arrived in Sydney after his meetings up in the CQ. Like i said i've being following expansion for three years i obviously wouldn't miss something like that.

Source: http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/...24/3075166.htm
"I guess I already knew about the passion of the people involved in the game up here but the real eye opener for me has been the economic activity, the industry, the plan for the next couple of decades in the area," says David. "Those of us from New South Wales, I don't think we're quite aware of just how big it's going to be up here over the next couple of decades."

What does this say? we have decades to get this bid done correctly.

I spoke to a NRL insider during the visit who had this ti say. "Honestly Gallop visiting CQ for the bid would be just an exercise to show they look as though they have some sort of interest in it.".

Now i will quote one bit from what you have said cause you have gotten it so completely wrong.

"Once again, nothing more than self praise of your own declared knowledge. My original question is why you originally stated the CC Bears to be the only capable bid(after WA Reds)."

The WA Reds are not capable of what i said originally. The WA Reds can not start, sustain n the early years and run a team without NRL assistance. Because of this need the WA Reds have for the NRL assistance. The NRL needs to find another bid that requires no assistance.

Now a team in a area that has never had a national team before does not sound like the ideal spot for this role. If the NRL were to (and one day they will) put a team in CQ then they will monitor it closely. Especially because if this failed, we would be laughing stock to other codes, especially if there expansion into non-heartland areas worked. I speak of the GWS Giants, the GC Suns and the Melbourne Rebels. So that means, from an NRL view that the CQ could no set-up a club with no assistance from the NRL.

Ipswich could possibly do so as they have already teams in QLD competitions. Although it is a big step up into the NRL and the bid team is still working its business plan out. The person to led the Ipswich bid is former Sydney Roosters chief executive Brian Canavan. They need to get their business plan done and sort out their identity circus before the bids are submitted. Then there would be no stopping them.

Wanna laugh at the potential threat of AFL in Sydney? go ahead that is what the AFL is banking on mate.

Still nothing......

The minimum cost of CC Bears financial membership is a mere $20, but they are yet to crack 5000 members. If the Central Coast is so desperate and deserving for their own team - then why can't anymore than 5000 people fork out as little as $20 to show their support. And if they don't wanna fork out a mere $20, how do you expect them to fork out a couple of hundred for real membership?

"I spoke to an NRL insider"... blah blah blah, he said, she said.

Forget the WA REDS, regardless of their requirement for support, you said:

This is great news for the WA Reds, as they will also need a lot of the attention of the NRL when starting up this is also great news for the Central Coast Bears because the NRL will need to accept another bid that needs little to help by the NRL in setting up. The only bid capable of that is the Central Coast Bears.

That is what I questioned. That is what you are still yet to answer. You've given your opinion of why you don't think other bids will work, but you are still yet to give any reasons why\how the CC Bears are the only bid capable that needs little help from the NRL in setting up. And you are still yet to give any reason why\how the CC Bears will be anymore profitable than any of the other 9 struggling NSW clubs.
Can you tell us why the CC Bears bid is so strong or cant you?
And I'm laughing at you, not the ALF. Listen to yourself:

Now a team in a area that has never had a national team before does not sound like the ideal spot for this role

Gee thats excellent reasoning, plenty of thought went into that one....

No Bears = AFL foothold of two teams.

Thats a pretty deep equation. Sounds more like a fear campaign a politician would generate cause he has no real policy

[onlooker]

Firstly, Central Coast memberships start at $40. The $20 memberships are for juniors under the age of 15.

Secondly, i love how to have moved away from everything you were saying before and brought it back to one question. The Question which has been answered.

Why are the Bears the only team capable to be brought into the NRL competition with little to no help from the NRL?

The Bears are without question the most advanced bid of the contenders ? 4,200 financial members with no team to support is an incredibly powerful statement.

In a recent meeting, the NRL expressed their delight at the bid?s progress. The bid team has targeted 5,000 financial memberships by 31 March 2011 (by average weekly sign ups, they should break 5,000 in early January) ? an incredibly high target, but one that looks possible with the ever-increasing momentum the bid is generating.

Innovative ?Bears @ Work? corporate drives have reaped an outstanding array of diverse sponsors ? finance for this bid is not in question.

An innovative private capital raising model will allow fans to buy shares in the Bears ? the first community owned team of its kind in Australia. Combined with merchandise and membership sales, the Bears are budgeting for an excess floating capital reserve of approximately $5 million ? the envy of all NRL teams with the exception perhaps only of the Broncos.

The success of the bid can be put down to a grassroots campaign in effect on the Central Coast over the past 5 years which has been ramped up over the past 12 months. Participation at untold community events, shopping centres, fundraisers, charity and school support have proved to the Coast that the Bears are committed to the community and here to stay forever. The majority of members are now Coasties, and by March will comprise around 2/3 Central Coast, 1/3 northern Sydney. (Something the NRL told the Bears they needed to have, 2/3 Central Coast members.)

This mix is crucial ? it goes to the heart of the Bears? strategic appeal for the NRL/ARL. David Gallop has expressed his desire for this bid to prove by financial memberships that both Central Coast and northern Sydney will support the Bears, which would allow the NRL/ARL to reconnect with northern Sydney at the same time giving a heartland area a team it desperately needs.
The 2010 success of St-George-Illawarra, the closest geographic model to the Bears? bid is timely.

The NRL/ARL, like any army at war, attempts to build fortresses in heartlands to prevent incursions by the enemy. With the heartlands secure, the 'army' can go on the offence, and 'secure' new territories. These new territories are obviously Perth in the short term and perhaps another NZ team in due course.

The only heartland area in Australia requiring a fortress is northern Sydney, with the new Western Sydney AFL franchise on the doorstep in the Hills district of North Sydney?s junior league district. Central Queensland and Ipswich NRL Bids are not directly being 'attacked'.

So not only do the Bears have a bid that?s the most advanced and muti-faceted ever to be submitted, there?s an urgency to reestablish support among the 750,000 people on the northside of Sydney disenfranchised when North Sydney were lost to the competition.

Admitting the Bears will indeed expand the game into a wealthy demographic, which is why sponsors are so eager to jump on board this model.
The Bears have four major sponsors and a total of just under 50 sponsors all up.

Add to this the huge tribal rivalries that can be promoted between the Central Coast Bears and Newcastle and Manly (plus other Foundation rivalries with Roosters, Rabbitohs and Wests Tigers) ? clashes that will benefit all clubs enormously in stimulating interest/pride in the local community and hence merchandise/member/attendance revenues.

For a while now, debate has raged over which was the better model ? a Central Coast Bears or a Central Coast stand alone model.

Opponents of the Bears bid say that a Central Coast-only model was superior due to the fact it would have less impact on Manly, as Manly would have access to the North Shore and Northern regions of Sydney.

If the Central Coast has no team, long term there will still be two weak teams between the Sydney Harbour Bridge and the QLD border. (Manly have showed no interest in Sydney North Shore apart from the Peninsula which is already there until recently when the possibility of the Bears getting a team became 'real').

An Independent Commission surely must see the long term folly of this position, as AFL will surely advance and eventually capture the bulk of uncommitted sporting fans north of the harbour.Anger on the Coast against Sydney-centric Clubs will be palpable at present. With only the Mariners as a local team to support, more Coasties will drift to soccer, particularly as real momentum and belief has been growing that finally, their time was approaching. As everyone now can see unless this Bears bid is accepted, there will never be a Central Coast team ever.

With the backing financially of not only Mortgage House sponsorship but also Mortgage House underwriting the team for a amazing $10 million dollars.

That is why the Central Coast Bears are the only capable bid to be able to set themselves up with no help from the NRL, while the NRL goes and helps the set up of the WA Reds.

[TITAN PETE]

Thats a Great Post Onlooker & everything u say makes sense that they should be given the Green light but the major reason the NRL would put the W.A Reds well ahead of them is their "Pot of Gold" , the new TV Rights deal which will be highly sought after in 2011 with talk of 100's of Millions or possibly even the Billion dollar bid being spoken of , & Western Australia is worth far more to the likes of Fox & Co than another almost Sydney based team when the negotiations begin ..

I have family in W.A & i lived & played League there myself (once upon a time) & unlike places like South Aust Rugby League will have a great following & will work

[onlooker]

Thats a Great Post Onlooker & everything u say makes sense that they should be given the Green light but the major reason the NRL would put the W.A Reds well ahead of them is their "Pot of Gold" , the new TV Rights deal which will be highly sought after in 2011 with talk of 100's of Millions or possibly even the Billion dollar bid being spoken of , & Western Australia is worth far more to the likes of Fox & Co than another almost Sydney based team when the negotiations begin ..

I have family in W.A & i lived & played League there myself (once upon a time) & unlike places like South Aust Rugby League will have a great following & will work

I agree with every you said in this post. WA Reds and Central Coast Bears for 2013.

[DIEHARD]

Ah I love a great debate on expansion, I've missed it. I remember the old Gold Coast v Central Coast v Wellington debates back in 2003-2005

I would not like to be making the decision. All have merit and all have a right.

But if I did, my vote would go the way of a Queensland license.

I also believe we should admit two teams, but probably stagger the entry. One per year and never more than one per year. Give that club as much focus, attention and support as possible to grow.

Entering four at once in 1995, while inspired, probably wasn't the best idea.

[onlooker]

Ah I love a great debate on expansion, I've missed it. I remember the old Gold Coast v Central Coast v Wellington debates back in 2003-2005

I would not like to be making the decision. All have merit and all have a right.

But if I did, my vote would go the way of a Queensland license.

I also believe we should admit two teams, but probably stagger the entry. One per year and never more than one per year. Give that club as much focus, attention and support as possible to grow.

Entering four at once in 1995, while inspired, probably wasn't the best idea.

hmm i think two is doable and easily doable if you get two bids that work at opposites ends. WA Reds to enter in 2013 and get the NRL's full attention while adding the Bears with them that don't need any attention really. Also the NRL needs the extra game which will provide more $$ from the TV deal.

[DIEHARD]

It would help that one would potentially be one East coast and one West coast.

In 1995 we had the admission of two new Queensland clubs, North and South Queensland, which also helped butcher the Gold Coast.

[Ryan]

Firstly, Central Coast memberships start at $40. The $20 memberships are for juniors under the age of 15.

Secondly, i love how to have moved away from everything you were saying before and brought it back to one question. The Question which has been answered.

Why are the Bears the only team capable to be brought into the NRL competition with little to no help from the NRL?

The Bears are without question the most advanced bid of the contenders ? 4,200 financial members with no team to support is an incredibly powerful statement.

In a recent meeting, the NRL expressed their delight at the bid?s progress. The bid team has targeted 5,000 financial memberships by 31 March 2011 (by average weekly sign ups, they should break 5,000 in early January) ? an incredibly high target, but one that looks possible with the ever-increasing momentum the bid is generating.

Innovative ?Bears @ Work? corporate drives have reaped an outstanding array of diverse sponsors ? finance for this bid is not in question.

An innovative private capital raising model will allow fans to buy shares in the Bears ? the first community owned team of its kind in Australia. Combined with merchandise and membership sales, the Bears are budgeting for an excess floating capital reserve of approximately $5 million ? the envy of all NRL teams with the exception perhaps only of the Broncos.

The success of the bid can be put down to a grassroots campaign in effect on the Central Coast over the past 5 years which has been ramped up over the past 12 months. Participation at untold community events, shopping centres, fundraisers, charity and school support have proved to the Coast that the Bears are committed to the community and here to stay forever. The majority of members are now Coasties, and by March will comprise around 2/3 Central Coast, 1/3 northern Sydney. (Something the NRL told the Bears they needed to have, 2/3 Central Coast members.)

This mix is crucial ? it goes to the heart of the Bears? strategic appeal for the NRL/ARL. David Gallop has expressed his desire for this bid to prove by financial memberships that both Central Coast and northern Sydney will support the Bears, which would allow the NRL/ARL to reconnect with northern Sydney at the same time giving a heartland area a team it desperately needs.
The 2010 success of St-George-Illawarra, the closest geographic model to the Bears? bid is timely.

The NRL/ARL, like any army at war, attempts to build fortresses in heartlands to prevent incursions by the enemy. With the heartlands secure, the 'army' can go on the offence, and 'secure' new territories. These new territories are obviously Perth in the short term and perhaps another NZ team in due course.

The only heartland area in Australia requiring a fortress is northern Sydney, with the new Western Sydney AFL franchise on the doorstep in the Hills district of North Sydney?s junior league district. Central Queensland and Ipswich NRL Bids are not directly being 'attacked'.

So not only do the Bears have a bid that?s the most advanced and muti-faceted ever to be submitted, there?s an urgency to reestablish support among the 750,000 people on the northside of Sydney disenfranchised when North Sydney were lost to the competition.

Admitting the Bears will indeed expand the game into a wealthy demographic, which is why sponsors are so eager to jump on board this model.
The Bears have four major sponsors and a total of just under 50 sponsors all up.

Add to this the huge tribal rivalries that can be promoted between the Central Coast Bears and Newcastle and Manly (plus other Foundation rivalries with Roosters, Rabbitohs and Wests Tigers) ? clashes that will benefit all clubs enormously in stimulating interest/pride in the local community and hence merchandise/member/attendance revenues.

For a while now, debate has raged over which was the better model ? a Central Coast Bears or a Central Coast stand alone model.

Opponents of the Bears bid say that a Central Coast-only model was superior due to the fact it would have less impact on Manly, as Manly would have access to the North Shore and Northern regions of Sydney.

If the Central Coast has no team, long term there will still be two weak teams between the Sydney Harbour Bridge and the QLD border. (Manly have showed no interest in Sydney North Shore apart from the Peninsula which is already there until recently when the possibility of the Bears getting a team became 'real').

An Independent Commission surely must see the long term folly of this position, as AFL will surely advance and eventually capture the bulk of uncommitted sporting fans north of the harbour.Anger on the Coast against Sydney-centric Clubs will be palpable at present. With only the Mariners as a local team to support, more Coasties will drift to soccer, particularly as real momentum and belief has been growing that finally, their time was approaching. As everyone now can see unless this Bears bid is accepted, there will never be a Central Coast team ever.

With the backing financially of not only Mortgage House sponsorship but also Mortgage House underwriting the team for a amazing $10 million dollars.

That is why the Central Coast Bears are the only capable bid to be able to set themselves up with no help from the NRL, while the NRL goes and helps the set up of the WA Reds.

Finally a post with a little bit of substance!

The bid membership price, whether it be $20 or $40 is still trivial. $40 is the average hourly wage up here. While some more suporters may have forked out more - 4,200 members out of a claimed population catchment of 750,000 is a bleak 0.55% considering they only had to cough up a $40 minimum to show support.

Our whole discussion here is based on bids being self sustainable - in which you claimed the CC Bears being the only one and I asked why. It has taken this long for you to directly respond to that with something other than opinion. In the meantime, I was giving information of what the CQ bid already has and demographical details of how it could financially sustain itself should it be accepted.

The info on the CC bid you have now highlighted is great; the community involvement, grass roots campaigning, financial backing, ect - which is great. But you havent outlined anything the CC Bears has, that the CQ Bid doesn't. You haven't given any valid reasoning why the CQ Bid couldn't sustain itself - thus you still haven't justified your original statement of why the Central Coast Bears are the only capable bid to be able to set themselves up with no help from the NRL, while the NRL goes and helps the set up of the WA Reds.

As for the ALF push into Sydney, that will only have a negative effect on every Sydney club including the CC Bears. The market in Sydney is at capacity; 9 RL teams, 2 AFL teams plus the Union and Soccer outfits, then not far North of Sydney you have yet another NRL & soccer team. The CC bid cannot guarentee the support it needs with that competition in the region, and the paltry 4200 bid members does not help the argument that it can. Gallops request for the percentage of current members locallity, endorse the high consideration of local competition. Also take into account that the Manly & Newcastle crowd attendances are at the bottom of the ladder as it is.
As a comparison; CQ has no national sporting team at all within a 600km radius, absolutely no competition for the support of the population catchment of 650,000. The CQ bid is at no risk of having to compete with any code, let alone competition from within our own. That itself, is just one reason why CQ Bid is not only capable of sustaining itself, but more capable than the CC bid.

Some questions I have for the CC bid region:
What makes it a wealthy region? How is money generated in that region ie. industry, mining, commerce??
What are the population demographics ie. percentages of families, age groups, percentage that are interested in any football codes etc???
What are the junior Rugby League membership numbers?
You clearly stated how the CC bid is commited to the region (which I dont question), but how commited is the region to the CC bid?
You mentioned less than 50 sponsors all up - what sort of money are these sponsors pledging, and what are the backgrounds of these sponors ie. Small commerce, large commerce, industrial, media, ect???

The answer to those questions are the key to long & short term sustainablity.

As for tribal rivalries, the CQ bid also has that covered. Current QLD derbies always sellout (or near enough), the CQ bid will add a 4th dimension to that rivalry and add up to another 6 guarenteed high capacity games each year.

You mentioned two weak teams between the SHB and QLD border, well the CC bid is more and more looking like it would be a third weak team.
Having a CC NSW team is not a necessity to Rugby Leagues long term vision of "growing the pie", and it is certainly not the only cable bid of self dependence - if it is a capable bid at all....

[Ryan]

I also believe we should admit two teams, but probably stagger the entry. One per year and never more than one per year. Give that club as much focus, attention and support as possible to grow.

Entering four at once in 1995, while inspired, probably wasn't the best idea.

Thats definitely a good point.
Also, another aspect of that to consider - thats another 50 first grade players that the competition would have to come up with. For those two new teams to be competitive, alot of those players will have to be experienced ones poached from other clubs, which will dilute the quality player pool in one big hit.