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Go_The_Doggies
12-11-06, 09:13 AM
12 November 2006
By STEVE KILGALLON

The evidence suggests ARL chief executive Geoff Carr was keeping Nathan Fien's non-eligibility as an ace up his sleeve in case Australia lost in Melbourne.

Australian Rugby League chief executive Geoff Carr knew Nathan Fien couldn't play for the Kiwis but kept quiet until after he wore the black jersey, documents obtained by the Sunday Star-Times suggest.

Carr even warned the Kiwis about Fien - but didn't share all his evidence, and failed to follow the right disciplinary procedures to stop the Australian-born hooker from playing for New Zealand, which led to the "Grannygate" fallout.

While last night Carr said he would not change any of his actions - "I couldn't do any more: there was no dispute and no avenue to take things further" - that didn't tally with angry sources within the NZRL or with former chairman Selwyn Bennett, who said Carr should have shared his records which showed Fien's grandparents were of European and Australian origin.

The Star-Times has a copy of a fax sent by Carr to Bennett on October 19 questioning Fien's eligibility and saying ARL registration records showed Fien didn't qualify for New Zealand. That was two days before Fien debuted for the Kiwis in Melbourne.

One source suggested to the the Star-Times that the Australians were "keeping their options open" depending on the result of the Melbourne game, won in the last seconds by Australia. If the Kiwis had won they could then have been stripped of their points.

The Star-Times also has a copy of Bennett's reply, saying Fien was qualified to play because of his Wanganui-born grandmother, suggesting the Kiwis didn't know Fien's claims were actually a generation older until at least late on October 19.

It's likely Fien filled out papers on his heritage when he played for Queensland in 2001 and the NRL also conducted a player audit last year where all first graders had to report the birth places of all their grandparents. Carr consulted those records in relation to a journalist's enquiry back in August.

But Carr said describing those records as evidence was a "bit extreme" as the system wasn't the best. "People write down what they think. We are going to tighten that up and make sure what they do put down is verified," he explained.

"We accepted it when he (Bennett) said Nathan had now double-checked and had New Zealand heritage. Footballers sit around filling it in and put down what they think."

According to the International Federation constitution, Carr could have avoided the whole debacle by reporting his doubts to the federation executive, which would have been bound to make a decision before Fien pulled on a Kiwis jersey.

But Carr rejected that, saying Bennett convinced him Fien was eligible and he trusted Bennett's word. "In the constitution, it says there has to be a dispute, and once we got confirmation from New Zealand there was no dispute," he said.

"We received an answer and there was no need to pursue it further. I was quite certain that Sel wasn't lying to me and I don't think he was, he genuinely believed it."

While the birth certificate showed Irene Lilian Maude Lett would be 100 if still alive, Carr said he "didn't click with the age" because his own grandmother had seven children, the last of them at the age of 40, so the age gap had seemed conceivable. But one NZRL source said Carr's failure to go to the international body was as bad as cricket's infamous underarm bowling incident back in 1981.

And the ousted Bennett said several people had said to him that Carr's role in "Grannygate" should be investigated. "Not only Geoff Carr, but the secretary at the ARL looked into it, the only one who didn't know anything seemed to be me," Bennett told the Star-Times last night.

He said Carr had rushed him into making a decision on Fien on October 19 instead of following correct procedure by referring the debate to the federation.

"I believe what I did was right, but when you think about it I had five minutes to make my mind up,"' said Bennett.

"We had no evidence at all, all we had was the birth certificate and we didn't have the luxury of what he had."

He said it would have been "very helpful" to have seen Carr's records.

"They always seem to be keen to shaft us - we never ever come off well in any negotiations with them," Bennett said.

Sections from the letter from Carr to Bennett - dated October 19, two days before Fien's debut for the Kiwis in Melbourne - are reprinted at right.

Bennett's response, faxed the same day, encloses the birth certificate of Irene Lilian Maude Lett, and describes her as Fien's grandmother.

"Thank you for your question in this regard and I trust this now clarify (sic) the matter in respect to your concerns over Nathan's eligibility," Bennett's letter concludes.

The Star-Times now understands it was later that day that Bennett learned the truth about Fien's family tree.

But it seems clear from the federation's constitution that Carr had an escape route that might have averted the entire incident. Section 3.3.6 reads: "In the event of the eligibility of a player to play for a country being uncertain or in dispute, upon the written request of any Member, Affiliate, or Honorary Member to the Chairman it shall be referred to the Executive Committee or a panel of three persons appointed by the Executive Committee."

That seems especially pertinent when it seems clear that for several months Carr was aware he had written evidence on Fien's eligibility and had been alerted to his possible selection.

In the August 6 Sunday News, he said his records showed Fien's grandparents were not from New Zealand.

The Sunday News referred in more detail to that last week when it said Carr and a staff member had checked the file while on the phone to reporter Neil Reid.

The NZRL's acting chairman, Andrew Chalmers, declined to comment on the new revelations about Grannygate, saying he would not talk about anything relating to the affair until a full review of the incident has been conducted. The gagging order extends to all NZRL staff, including coach Brian McClennan.

Poida
12-11-06, 11:01 AM
what an idiot to keep quiet about it till he played.

Grimmace
12-11-06, 11:13 AM
Funny i read an article pretty much contradicitng this article.

Steve
12-11-06, 11:26 AM
Before he played they questioned his eligibility. If anyone knew at this point, it was the Kiwis.

Go_The_Doggies
12-11-06, 12:04 PM
Before he played they questioned his eligibility. If anyone knew at this point, it was the Kiwis.
The ARL must have known also, as they approved of his birth certificate before his made his debut in the Melbourne game.

I'm over this whole thing, but just thought I should post that article.

RIP
13-11-06, 09:47 AM
If that was the case should kiwis get there points back after fowl play from the aussies. cause in my opion Carr was cheating before the kiwis did!

Grimmace
13-11-06, 09:55 AM
If that was the case should kiwis get there points back after fowl play from the aussies. cause in my opion Carr was cheating before the kiwis did!
How are we cheating again ?


In any case u dudnt want to post this but seeing as how you are upset by the whole fien saga lets look it at from Carrs point of view:

Trans Tasman rugby relations at a low
Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 4:09 PM

Trans Tasman relations have plunged further into crisis with Australian Rugby League (ARL) chairman Colin Love blasting the New Zealand Rugby League (NZRL) for its role in the Nathan Fien eligibility fiasco.

The ARL has maintained relative silence over the "Grannygate" debacle, but following comments by former NZRL chairman Selwyn Bennett in the media, Love has hit out at the Kiwis.

Bennett, who resigned from his position over the matter, said Love and ARL chief executive Geoff Carr knew Fien was ineligible two days before he played for the Kiwis and should have stopped New Zealand from fielding the Queensland-born hooker.

But Love has refuted those claims and says Bennett deliberately lied to allow Fien to play in the Tri Nations tournament and had told the ARL he was a legitimate Kiwi within the grandparent rule.

"I was never asked to look into the eligibility issue prior to New Zealand selecting and playing Nathan Fien in Tri Nations matches," said Love, who is also chairman of the Rugby League International Federation.

"(Geoff) Carr raised a specific query with Selwyn Bennett concerning Nathan Fien's eligibility. He was given a verbal assurance by Bennett that he had investigated the matter.

"(Geoff) Carr accepted in a spirit of trust and good faith the information provided to him by the chairman of the controlling body of a fellow rugby league nation."

Love said the handling of the matter had been disgraceful by New Zealand and had only discredited international rugby league.

"I believe that some of the conduct now apparent has been disgraceful," said Love.

"I have attempted to avoid the use of words such as `deception' in my comments to date about this whole affair but to say that I am extremely disappointed is an understatement.

"It has always been the case in international rugby league that it is the firm responsibility of each nation to ensure that the players it fields in the national team are eligible players.

"I received calls from a number of people in New Zealand ... all of them apologising for what had happened and agreeing that it was blatantly obvious that Nathan Fien was ineligible to play for NZ.

"This whole business has not done anything to improve the standing of international rugby league - and the prolonging of it now by people attempting to absolve themselves of responsibility for what took place does them or the game no credit.

"But as far as the ARL is concerned this is now a closed book. It has been an unfortunate saga."

Source: AAP

jenny
13-11-06, 11:20 AM
Kiwis say they'll win again

By Dean Ritchie

November 13, 2006 12:00
Article from: The Daily Telegraph


****Y Kiwi greats last night boldly installed New Zealand as the Tri-Nations favourites ? telling Australia to prepare for a repeat of last year's 24-0 nightmare in Leeds.
New Zealand rolled through Great Britain 34-4 in Wellington on Saturday night, throwing some fright and tension into the Kangaroos camp.

New Zealand were $7.50 to win the tournament before the weekend but should tighten to about $3.50 this morning.

The message from New Zealand is clear: We want back-to-back titles.

Great Britain can push New Zealand out of the final with a win against Australia in Brisbane this Saturday evening ? but that would seem unlikely.

Former New Zealand captain Hugh McGahan and ex-Kiwi coach Graham Lowe last night installed New Zealand as favourites against an Australian side they feel lacks cohesion.

Asked were the Kiwis now favourites, McGahan said: "Yes, on the back on Saturday's performance against Great Britain.

"Australia has been scratchy. I won't say they lack confidence but they seem to lack some cohesion.

"New Zealand have played themselves into form ? despite all the Nathan Fien controversy. They are at their best when they have their backs to the wall. That showed against Great Britain.

"They played the Poms with a power game I haven't seen in a long time."

Lowe, who also coached Manly, the Warriors and North Queensland, said New Zealand have only been outplayed once this tournament.

"The Kiwis are strong favourites ? I can't say it any other way," Lowe said.

"Australia have, in a sense, been beaten twice. Once to Great Britain and the Kiwis only lost to them late (in Melbourne) through the brilliance of Darren Lockyer and Greg Inglis.

"The only thing that will deny New Zealand winning is Great Britain beating Australia and the Kiwis missing the final.

"Australia were favourites going into the tournament but New Zealand is growing another leg each week."

McGahan said New Zealand must alter their power tactics against Australia.

"I don't think New Zealand can use that strategy against Australia," he said. "Australians confront that style week in, week out. The Poms don't."

McGahan said he also preferred the more creative Jerome Ropati at five-eighth ahead of Nigel Vagana.

"It'll be a backward step to keep Vagana at five-eighth," he said

Go_The_Doggies
13-11-06, 11:56 AM
Looks like this Grannygate thing is starting up again with a slanging match between RL boards. *sigh*

jenny
13-11-06, 02:49 PM
Love's attack on NZRL

By Steve Mascord

November 13, 2006 12:00
Article from: The Daily Telegraph



INTERNATIONAL league boss Colin Love has slammed the NZRL's conduct during the Nathan Fien affair as "disgraceful" and accused coach Brian McClennan of knowing about the rort.

In a stunning outburst Love, chairman of the Rugby League International Federation and the ARL, said last night former NZRL chairman Selwyn Bennett had hurt rugby league by saying Fien had a Kiwi grandparent and then blaming Australian officials for believing him.

"I have attempted to avoid the use of words such as 'deception' in my comments to date about this whole affair but to say that I am extremely disappointed is an understatement," Love said in a harshly-worded statement.

"I believe that some of the conduct now apparent has been disgraceful.

"It...transpired...that the birth certificate was not that of Fien's grandmother but one relating to his great grandmother ? and that Mr Bennett had been aware of that fact on October 19, as had been the coach and a manager of the New Zealand team.

"Mr Bennett had not communicated that knowledge to (ARL CEO Geoff) Carr, nor apparently to his own board...or to anyone else involved in the conduct of the Tri Nations tournament."

McClennan is prevented from defending himself against the suggestion he knew of the affair by an NZRL edict banning him and his players from commenting on the scandal.

Love had been angered by reports over the past week that Carr should have done more because he knew Fien had previously filled in a declaration saying his grandparents were from the United Kingdom, not New Zealand.

A headline in the Sunday Star Times said yesterday "evidence suggests ARL chief executive Geoff Carr was keeping Nathan Fien's non-eligibility as an ace up his sleeve in case Australia lost in Melbourne".

Acting NZRL chairman Andrew Chalmers, who announced over the weekend he would stand down as a director in March to help quel a political revolt over the Fien affair, expressed surprise at Love's comments last night but declined to respond.

Love continued: "The facts are that back on October 19 Geoff Carr raised a specific query with Selwyn Bennett concerning Nathan Fien's eligibility.

"He was given a verbal assurance by Mr Bennett that he had investigated the matter ? and that Fien was eligible to play for New Zealand because his grandmother was New Zealand-born.

"On that same day Mr Bennett confirmed his assurance in writing, and attached a copy of a birth certificate which he stated was the birth certificate of Nathan Fien's grandmother. Mr Carr accepted in a spirit of trust and good faith...."

Love said Carr believe Fien had been simply mistaken when he failed to mention the New Zealand "grandparent" on an earlier form.

"It later emerged that Nathan Fien had presented the NZRL with four birth certificates but that the NZRL had chosen to selectively put forward only one of them ? and to erroneously represent that one as being the birth certificate of Fien's grandmother," Love said.

"It is a very, very sad situation if Mr Bennett is now saying, as he appears to be: 'You should not have believed and relied on what I said was the truth. You should have doubted me'.

"This whole business has not done anything to improve the standing ofinternational rugby league ? and the prolonging of it now by people attempting to absolve themselves of responsibility for what took place does them or the game no credit."

Go_The_Doggies
13-11-06, 03:25 PM
I'm so over this whole debarcle. Our boys have shown what a tight unit they are, and that nothing can phase them, so this whole Granny-Gate slanging match can continue forever if they wish, but it wont effect the boys in any way.

I love them. <3

Future Star
13-11-06, 05:27 PM
hehehehe - i still find it funny that they had to use an Aussie and lost to the Aussies....

Go_The_Doggies
14-11-06, 02:31 PM
hehehehe - i still find it funny that they had to use an Aussie and lost to the Aussies....
I still find Tonie Carrol quite funny tbh.

And we didnt HAVE to use an Australian.