View Full Version : Origin: Bennett hurting Lockyer's Origin chances?
Origin: Bennett hurting Lockyer's Origin chances?
Darren Lockyer is all class, one of the best players in the world. Sunday saw him with the Broncos struggle in which they (and he) will only get better as we delve deeper into the season.
Many good judges out there (Laurie Daley, Matt Johns and Gorden Tallis amongst others) believe that Wayne Bennett is doing Lockyer no favours in playing him at five-eight in the front line for Brisbane. Against the Cowboys, Lockyer made 13 tackles and missed 11 tackles in 56 minutes of football. We know Lockyer is not there for his defensive prowess, though the extra work he is being forced to do up front is hampering his attacking game no two ways about it.
Season 2004 saw a fresh and confident Darren Lockyer take to the five-eight role like a duck to water and he took out the Dally M Five-Eight of the Year award polling very well in the Golden Boot Player of the Year Award. His season was capped off with a 5 star performance in the Tri-Nations final that saw Bob Fulton label his first half as one of the best performances he had seen in a Kangaroo jersey. All was rosy.
Lockyer in 2005 started the season well though as the season went on he became a tired, jaded shell of his former self with Brisbane and Queensland suffering for the form lapse. You would be forgiven for thinking that 2005 saw Darren Lockyer age 5 years such was the dishelved figure we saw hobbling in his hotel foyer unable to take part in the majority of the UK leg of the tour last year.
With Dally M Player of the Year Jonathon Thurston totally outplaying him on the weekend and with Scott Prince starting 2006 as he ended 2005, QLD selectors will have almighty headache come Origin time if Lockyer and his Brisbane Broncos are still struggling. I don't think Lockyer could be moved to fullback for QLD replacing a Bowen, Slater or Schifcofske after not playing in the fullback position since 2003, so selectors will monitor his form closely right up until selection time.
As the current Queensland and Australian captain, I fully expect to see Darren Lockyer in game one of the 2006 State of Origin Series as I believe when fit he is second only to Andrew Johns as the best player in the world today. The above cannot be simply ignored, Queensland are under the pump again this season and NSW will select a side geared on once again targeting Darren Lockyer much like NQ did on the weekend which ensured Lockyer had nothing left in attack.
The more I see Lockyer pumbled each week when wearing the six jersey, the more I hope Bennett moves the best fullback of the modern era back to fullback where he was dominating football games from the back. I understand and applaud the team first approach of Lockyer at Brisbane, though from what I have since 2004 the move to me is not once that has linked to success for Brisbane or Queensland at Origin time.
Thoughts?
It's obvious that he has no aspiration to play fullback, Which I think is fair enough. Although at fullback the Broncos would have a great player with lockyer. However if its the running game he likes Give him a run on the wing or even in the centers.
He really did struggle on the weekend against the Cowboys and as you mentioned Deegan he was outplayed by Thurston from Kick off till the time he left the field.
As far as Bennett ruining his origin chances, My opinion is HELL YES.. If lockyer continues to play in this position at the decreased performance we have seen on sunday. I would say that even a spot on the bench for Origin one would be a long shot.
Steelers
14-03-06, 12:31 AM
He definately needs to be moved back to fullback. One of the best fullbacks of all time. If the selectors were smart (and they usually aren't), they would pick Thurston and Prince in the halves for QLD. IMO They would be almost unstoppable.
If the selectors went for:
6 - Jonathon Thurston
7 - Scott Prince
I don't think Lockyer would be the best option at fullback going in cold - that would come from Matt Bowen, Billy Slater, Rhys Wesser or Clinton Schifcofske.
Is it possible to defend Lockyer at fullback and attack at 6?
Queenslander
14-03-06, 09:13 AM
Injury permiting we will see Lockyer at number 6. But if there is even a hint of injury in Lockyer I dont think he will be risked. And we probably see:
1: Bowen
6: Thurston
7: Prince
And Slater could slot into a wing position. Based on round 1 form Lockyer shouldnt be even considered but there are still many more rounds until State of Origin.
*SaLaw*
15-03-06, 10:48 PM
I agree with what you say about Lockyer, DeeGan, and furthermore, I think he's beginning to look like a dis-spirited, broken man.
He was originally moved into the five eighth position because the Broncos didn't have anyone at that time capable of being a match winner from that position.
They now have Hunt who is definitely capable of filling that role so they should swap those two players onfield positions immediately. I think it's only Bennett's refusal to accept that he might be wrong that has prevented it from happening up to now.
After all, Lockyer was lauded as one of the very best fullbacks of all time but now he's just getting smashed out of the game. Hunt is bigger in stature and more likely to be capable of playing that position in a similar style to Trent Barrett.
For what it's worth, this is my back line dream team for the Maroons:
1 Lockyer
2 Bowen
3 Hodges
4 Bowman
5 Slater
6 Thurston
7 Prince
17 Hunt
I just hope they select the Maroons on form this year and give us a chance for a Series win again.
I agree with what you say about Lockyer, DeeGan, and furthermore, I think he's beginning to look like a dis-spirited, broken man.
He was originally moved into the five eighth position because the Broncos didn't have anyone at that time capable of being a match winner from that position.
They now have Hunt who is definitely capable of filling that role so they should swap those two players onfield positions immediately. I think it's only Bennett's refusal to accept that he might be wrong that has prevented it from happening up to now.
After all, Lockyer was lauded as one of the very best fullbacks of all time but now he's just getting smashed out of the game. Hunt is bigger in stature and more likely to be capable of playing that position in a similar style to Trent Barrett.
For what it's worth, this is my back line dream team for the Maroons:
1 Lockyer
2 Bowen
3 Hodges
4 Bowman
5 Slater
6 Thurston
7 Prince
17 Hunt
I just hope they select the Maroons on form this year and give us a chance for a Series win again.
Great post :clap: Tend to agree with the majority of the above :)
*SaLaw*
16-03-06, 11:16 AM
Great post :clap: Tend to agree with the majority of the above :)
Well, thank you very much. And there's plenty more where that came from. I guess it's a legacy of my idle hands and busy mind. :blush: :laugh:
Well, thank you very much. And there's plenty more where that came from. I guess it's a legacy of my idle hands and busy mind. :blush: :laugh:
Let's hope you can add to the 11 posts thus far ;)
[BroncosGirl]
16-03-06, 06:11 PM
There has been discussion in just sayin, move Locky to fullback in defence so he doesn't get crushed so many times, but then the thoughts of Hunt come up, hes no better in defence when it comes to one on one tackles. And would that then wear out Hunt?
I'd really love to switch Locky back just to see how he goes, one game, just to see, but I odnt think it'll happen, the chances ares slim. He seems very set in this ways to stay at 5/8, well at least WB is.
So, as for origin, it may well hurt his chances, IF he doesn't start to gain some form, thats the thing, he gains form, all this goes away, when he had some brilliant games last year and the year before, no one was questioning anything.
It'd be great to see that backline salaw2504!! Thats dynamite!
Queenslander
16-03-06, 06:18 PM
']There has been discussion in just sayin, move Locky to fullback in defence so he doesn't get crushed so many times, but then the thoughts of Hunt come up, hes no better in defence when it comes to one on one tackles. And would that then wear out Hunt?
I'd really love to switch Locky back just to see how he goes, one game, just to see, but I odnt think it'll happen, the chances ares slim. He seems very set in this ways to stay at 5/8, well at least WB is.
So, as for origin, it may well hurt his chances, IF he doesn't start to gain some form, thats the thing, he gains form, all this goes away, when he had some brilliant games last year and the year before, no one was questioning anything.
It'd be great to see that backline salaw2504!! Thats dynamite!
Hunt IMO is quite poor at defence; there has been numerous occasions when he just doesnt match a first grade level. You pretty much have a 100% chance to score a run away try against Hunt; due to his one-on-one defence being so poor. Moving him to five-eight or half back may help but he will still be burnt by the fact that he wont be able to match it in terms of defence.
Coaster
16-03-06, 06:33 PM
Hunt IMO is quite poor at defence; there has been numerous occasions when he just doesnt match a first grade level. You pretty much have a 100% chance to score a run away try against Hunt; due to his one-on-one defence being so poor. Moving him to five-eight or half back may help but he will still be burnt by the fact that he wont be able to match it in terms of defence.
Mate he is only 18, with 1 season of bulking up, and a good tackling coach he could be better in defence then Daley was.
He has the perfect build for a 5/8
[BroncosGirl]
16-03-06, 06:37 PM
He does have a good build for 5/8, but Im just saying atm, replying to ideas of moving locky to FB in defence, that then Hnut would have to go to 5/8 fro defence and atm, hes not great at defence, like Qlder said. But I think Hunt will be a future 5/8, and he'll get better, I've seen him do some good tackles.
If he works on it, it'll be no problem, its not like hes weak or anything, he's strong, got a good build. Maybe if Locky's later years, he can finish his career as how he started, FB... I wish :P
1. Locky
2.Ty
3.Stevey Bell
4.Bowmen
5.Slater
6.THURSTON
7.Prince
8.Price
9.Smith
10.Tronc
11.Webb
12.Crocker
13.Dallas Johnson
14.Bowen
15.Inglis
16.Ben Hannant
17.Walker
Coaster
16-03-06, 07:08 PM
1. Locky - Must be at Fullback
2.Tate - Agrresive fast, and great defender
3.Tonga - evasive, great hands
4.Hodges - playing fantasic, is not a winger
5.Slater - Must be there
6.Thurston - Inform 5/8, controll the backline
7.Prince - Inform 7, Must controll the forwards
8.Price - Reliable
9.Smith - workman
10.Ross - hardhead up front
11.Renoldson - My ruffie, love this bloke when he was in Melb
12.Crocker - Tough nut,
13. Ashely Harrison - Ball playing lock
14.Bowen - 15 min into each half
15.Pj Marsh - to swap with Smith 20 min mark of each half
16.Carl Webb - Killer
17.Petro - Still not certain with this one
Easy game plan
15min Ross off - Webb on
25min Smith off - Pj Marsh on
30min Price off - Petro On
Thurston off - Bowen on
(Bowen moves to fullback, Lockyer to 5/8)
Dragons
16-03-06, 09:02 PM
Bennett said that Lockyer wont go back to fullback, but I disagree to that and think K.Hunt should play five eight and Lockyer should be fullback. It's funny because when I was in Brisbane a lot of Broncos supporters agreed or even mention it themselves.
TITANS007
21-03-06, 09:28 AM
It's obvious that he has no aspiration to play fullback, Which I think is fair enough. Although at fullback the Broncos would have a great player with lockyer. However if its the running game he likes Give him a run on the wing or even in the centers.
He really did struggle on the weekend against the Cowboys and as you mentioned Deegan he was outplayed by Thurston from Kick off till the time he left the field.
As far as Bennett ruining his origin chances, My opinion is HELL YES.. If lockyer continues to play in this position at the decreased performance we have seen on sunday. I would say that even a spot on the bench for Origin one would be a long shot.
I truly think it is Lockyer hurting his own chances, not Bennett. I think Bennett would be quite happy to move him back, but it seems the more likely scenario is that Lockyer himself doesn't want to move back. I think it's too much pride mixed with needing a change that is stopping him from switching back.
I think Bennett would be quite happy to move him back, but it seems the more likely scenario is that Lockyer himself doesn't want to move back
Bennett moved Lockyer there in 2004 and has kept him there as he sees it as being in the best interests of the team as does Lockyer I might add.
TITANS007
22-03-06, 04:18 PM
Bennett moved Lockyer there in 2004 and has kept him there as he sees it as being in the best interests of the team as does Lockyer I might add.
How do you know? If that is just what you've heard throuh the media, I'd be skeptical! There was also an article recently quoting Bennett saying he'd move Locky back.
How do you know? If that is just what you've heard throuh the media, I'd be skeptical! There was also an article recently quoting Bennett saying he'd move Locky back.
I know as much as Bennett and Lockyer have told the media - what I posted is common knowledge in league circles.
And yes, Bennett is quoted as saying that he would move Lockyer to fullback IF he had too. Articles following that, Lockyer is quoted as saying he won't be moving back to fullback as five-eight is where the team needs him regardless if it impacts on representative honors.
HodgoBerro
22-03-06, 04:42 PM
I know as much as Bennett and Lockyer have told the media - what I posted is common knowledge in league circles.
And yes, Bennett is quoted as saying that he would move Lockyer to fullback IF he had too. Articles following that, Lockyer is quoted as saying he won't be moving back to fullback as five-eight is where the team needs him regardless if it impacts on representative honors.\
seriously - i know locky and bennett probably more than you do - i never believe the media as said by Justin Hodges once before to me - its a crock of ****
\
seriously - i know locky and bennett probably more than you do - i never believe the media as said by Justin Hodges once before to me - its a crock of ****
:laugh: Your point being? I know NRL types though there I feel no need to name drop here - it doesn't give validity to your post by writing such a statement HodgoBerro. I know you get some pics at fan days or open training sessions, great stuff, more power to you, though I am certain the coach and captain are not discussing team selection headaches with you either.
Are you suggesting all the quotes in the media re: the Lockyer five-eight will he or won't he debacle are fabricated? The media can be guilty of twisting a story at times though this has been reported consistently by various sources.
For some members:
I'll move Lockyer, Bennett says
By Wayne Heming
March 17, 2006
BRISBANE coach Wayne Bennett says he has the courage to remove five-eighth Darren Lockyer from the defensive line if the former fullback is unable to solve his tackling problems this NRL season.
One game into the 2006 premiership, and two weeks after declaring he'd never return Lockyer to fullback, Bennett admits he may be forced to make the change to spare Lockyer a weekly pounding that dulls his attacking brilliance.
"I've got to be flexible," Bennett who switched Lockyer to five-eighth in 2004 to give Brisbane more attacking spark, said.
"I wouldn't be afraid to move him if that's what I've got to do."
Bennett cautioned the media about getting ahead of themselves when asked if Karmichael Hunt would be Brisbane's new five-eighth.
"I was asked if I would have the courage to do it ... I said I would, but I didn't say I was moving him," Bennett said.
For Brisbane to be successful, the defence must be in order - which means Lockyer pulling his weight in that department.
"I can't just be committing suicide with the rest of the guys and putting my head in the sand and hoping the problem will go away," Bennett said after Hunt trained a lot at first receiver ahead of the match against the Sharks tomorrow.
"We've either got to get it right or we've got to make another decision."
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Lockyer's defence was questioned 24 times by the Cowboys during their 36-4 win last weekend, and he failed the test on 11 occasions.
He was replaced midway through the second half with an arm injury, and was a spent force after the game.
Other teams have attacked Lockyer, with Parramatta's Nathan Hindmarsh and Manly's Ben Kennedy both targeting the pivot last season in a bid to drain his energy.
Former players, including Laurie Daley, have expressed concerns about Lockyer's health and longevity if he continues to take a battering.
They also believe Lockyer is far more effective for Brisbane when playing fullback, from which position he can use his vision and agility to attack.
"I'm continually in consultation with him about a number of issues and it's not something we are unaware of, not working on or trying to improve," Bennett said of the projected switch.
"You have to muscle-up, get the job done, or you pay the consequences. We paid the consequences last weekend."
Bennett agreed with the perception that Lockyer looked unhappy but said it was a "misconception".
"He's as good as I've seen him the last couple of years," he said.
"The team was struggling last week and no one was happy.
Bennett said Lockyer felt the pressure when the Broncos were struggling.
"That's the type of personality that he is," he said.
"He worries. He worries about the team performance. He worries about his own and he carries that in his body language."
and
Lockyer still has one to consider
By Steve Ricketts
March 20, 2006
BRONCOS skipper Darren Lockyer yesterday backed himself to play five-eighth for the entire 2006 NRL season despite widespread calls for his return to fullback.
Lockyer, who played a starring role in Brisbane's 16-12 win over Cronulla at Toyota Park on Saturday night, would not rule out a return to fullback one day but said it was unlikely it would be this year.
The 29-year-old said he wanted to do whatever was best for the Broncos and he did not care what the implications were for his representative future.
Dally M Medal winner Johnathan Thurston, from the Cowboys, has staked a claim for the Test and Queensland five-eighth spot while Anthony Minichiello is guaranteed the Australian fullback job.
"The representative stuff is not an issue," Lockyer said. "That's for the rep selectors to decide.
"It's what the Broncos need that is most important, not what I feel, and at the moment it's me playing five-eighth and Karmichael Hunt playing fullback."
Broncos coach Wayne Bennett said on Friday he would not be afraid to switch Lockyer to fullback after Lockyer turned in a poor display at five-eighth in the opening- round 36-4 loss to the Cowboys.
"The key to what Wayne said is that he would only do it if he thought it was the right thing to do," Lockyer said. "That's way down the track. I'm happy to stay at five-eighth. It [a switch to fullback] won't happen soon."
Lockyer played 56 minutes against the Cowboys before retiring with an arm injury but lasted the full 80 minutes against the Sharks even though he was the victim of a high shot from Origin teammate Ben Ross in the 59th minute. It left Lockyer with a cut above the left eye.
At that stage Cronulla led 12-4 with the Broncos' only try scored by second-rower Brad Thorn after a great run from dummy half by hooker Michael Ennis in the 44th minute.
Lockyer set up prop Shane Webcke for a barnstorming try in the 65th minute and then halfback Brett
Seymour's chip and chase and a Lockyer grubber kick created a try for Casey McGuire in the 69th minute for the final scoreline. It was the third time in a row the Broncos had won 16-12 at Toyota Park.
"It was a relief but as a team we weren't thinking about the fact we finished last season with seven losses," Lockyer said. "We just viewed the loss to the Cowboys as nothing more than a first-round loss."
Webcke said the Broncos had acquitted themselves well on an emotional night as the Sharks honoured Steve Rogers with a video tribute to his life, a minute's silence and the presentation of jerseys to his widow Ingrid and sons Mat and Don. Rogers died on January 3, aged 51.
HodgoBerro
22-03-06, 04:58 PM
:laugh: Your point being? I know NRL types though there I feel no need to name drop here - it doesn't give validity to your post by writing such a statement HodgoBerro. I know you get some pics at fan days or open training sessions, great stuff, more power to you, though I am certain the coach and captain are not discussing team selection headaches with you either.
Are you suggesting all the quotes in the media re: the Lockyer five-eight will he or won't he debacle are fabricated? The media can be guilty of twisting a story at times though this has been reported consistently by various sources.
where DeeGan? Sydney? they are the worst to fabricate a story on Lockyer.
I know Lockyer pretty well - i see in his personality that he's not getting cut down by WB in his origin chances.
I know i get pics at fan day and that but so does a lot of people!
I've gone to at least a training session a week for the last two years - please don't tell me that i don't know the players well enough for this crap to happen.
i always ask questions at training so people - mainly the broncos hq forum has some sort of idea of whos in and out.
Queenslander
22-03-06, 05:03 PM
I think we should just all agree that the decision is up to both Darren Lockyer and Wayne Bennett. They are the only ones that know what will happen; no matter what is published by newspapers or what is said by rugby league experts or fans.
HodgoBerro
22-03-06, 05:05 PM
who was the 1st to blame lockyer on the 7 losses last year - the newspapers
who was the 1st to cut down hodges when he rejoined the broncos? - the newspapers
who was the 1st to blame WB and Lockyer 2 weeks ago after the cowboys beat us? - the newspapers
who was the 1st to make up a story about lockyer leaving brisbane for a sydney club? - the newspapers
need i say more??
where DeeGan? Sydney? they are the worst to fabricate a story on Lockyer.
I know Lockyer pretty well - i see in his personality that he's not getting cut down by WB in his origin chances.
I know i get pics at fan day and that but so does a lot of people!
I've gone to at least a training session a week for the last two years - please don't tell me that i don't know the players well enough for this crap to happen.
i always ask questions at training so people - mainly the broncos hq forum has some sort of idea of whos in and out.
:laugh:
I am telling you that I would not think for one minute you as a fan would be privy to team selections - no offense. I appreciate your a passionate fan, though it might pay to read what I have wrote before coming to the thread telling us "you know Locky and Benny" better than I. It has nothing to do with the thread.
I am not sure where this is all coming from to be honest, I have stated that Bennett playing Lockyer at five-eight is hurting the player once upon a time dubbed the best in the world. The stats prove that, 'proof is in the pudding'.
If we are going to pick the form five-eight for QLD, it is Jonathon Thurston.
Queenslander
22-03-06, 05:08 PM
who was the 1st to blame lockyer on the 7 losses last year - the newspapers
who was the 1st to cut down hodges when he rejoined the broncos? - the newspapers
who was the 1st to blame WB and Lockyer 2 weeks ago after the cowboys beat us? - the newspapers
who was the 1st to make up a story about lockyer leaving brisbane for a sydney club? - the newspapers
need i say more??
Yeah its true; but the more we let these types of stories affect us, the more that they win.........just ignore all the hot air which comes from down south and us Broncos fans want have anything to complain about.
who was the 1st to blame lockyer on the 7 losses last year - the newspapers
who was the 1st to blame WB and Lockyer 2 weeks ago after the cowboys beat us? - the newspapers
Can those in the media not have an opinion on the form of Brisbane and Darren Lockyer?
Brisbane captain is also quite vocal, is he perhaps influenced by the Sydney media HodgoBerro?
Thursday March 9, 07:37 AM AAP
Tallis renews calls to shift Lockyer
Former Brisbane captain Gorden Tallis has renewed calls for the Broncos to return Darren Lockyer to fullback ahead of this weekend's NRL season opener against North Queensland.
Tallis said the extra demands placed on Lockyer in defence at five-eighth would erode his attacking ability.
"He's too good to be doing 30 tackles," Tallis told Channel Ten.
"You don't have a Darren Lockyer in your side to do 30 tackles.
"He can still play the same brand of football they just have to change the number on his back."
ADVERTISEMENT
Lockyer missed most of the Broncos' pre-season build-up following foot surgery but will lead the club in Sunday's derby at Suncorp Stadium.
His return, as well as that of halfback Brett Seymour, has allowed veteran coach Wayne Bennett to move Karmichael Hunt back to fullback after playing him at No.7 during the trials.
Bennett is expected to officially scratch lock Tonie Carroll from the Cowboys' clash at training on Thursday with Brad Thorn set to earn an early reprieve.
Thorn was dropped to Brisbane's feeder-club side Toowoomba on Monday but should now play for the Broncos after Carroll broke down with a hamstring injury this week.
Carroll has a long history of making miraculous recoveries but his hamstring is unlikely to be right this weekend.
Bookmakers surprisingly overlooked trial form and Brisbane's list of star players returning from injury to install the Broncos $1.62 favourites with the Cowboys a generous $2.30.
Brisbane though are something of first-up specialist having won their first game every year since 2001, while the Cowboys have not won an opening round match since 1998.
HodgoBerro
22-03-06, 05:11 PM
do you call blaming lockyer of the teams poor performance an opinon?
last time i checked theres no i in the word team
did i ever say anything about him as the qld 5/8??
do you call blaming lockyer of the teams poor performance an opinon?
last time i checked theres no i in the word team
did i ever say anything about him as the qld 5/8??
I swear we had an emoticon headbutting a brick wall on this forum...
Just for the record, produce the article where the media blamed Darren Lockyer solely for the Brisbane loss? I read most rugby league publications and I have found nothing nor recall seeing Lockyer get the blame.
I do recall many commenting on the poor form shown by the Australian captain who missed 11 tackles making 13 in 57 minutes though.
The Maroons squad IMO, we need some fresh legs out there. Tell me what you guys think :
1. Billy Slater
2. Brent Tate
3. Justin Hodges
4. Steven Bell
5. Greg Ingis
6. Darran Lockyer
7. Jonathan Thurston
8. Shane Tronc
9. Aaron Payne
10. Steven Price
11. Michael Crocker
12. Nate Myles
13. Ashley Harrison
14. Ben Ross
15. Carl Webb
16. Chris Flannery
17. Cooper Cronk
17. Matt Bowen
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