Trams on the Gold Coast

[CoastSportsFan]

Opinion is pretty divided on this topic but I think it is a great step for the city. It'll certainly help tourists get around the hot spots such as Surfers Paradise and Broadbeach. It was revealed yesterday that stage 2 (connecting to the train line) is likely to be approved in the next six months or so. Here are some pictures of tests they are conducting in Southport at the moment and a video link at the bottom.

http://s11.postimg.org/4eskdtzhf/golden.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7450/11484567115_ddfcc2934b_c.jpg
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3828/11434007035_594b1842a1_c.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrR4r6bnmCs

So what do you think about it? Lets remember they are planning an extension to Robina stadium in the future...

[DIEHARD]

I've never heard anyone refer to them as "Trams"

[hammer]

Stage 2 will be part of the next state election posturing!

[Bayside Titan]

I think that long term they will be a good investment for the City. It will help with the Public Transport problems that exist. In my view the fact that there will designated Stations and a Time Table that can for the most part be relied upon will be great. Additionally if the council has say 20 buses servicing that line then it could be argued that those buses be moved to other routes to increase the buses in high use Routes.

[Titanic]

no reason why buses can't connect to the tram stations ... like them a lot.

[CoastSportsFan]

I know people are split on this topic so I thought I'd see what people on here think about it. If you don't know, the Gold Coast has recently built a light rail network (trams) that runs from Southport, through Main Beach and Surfers Paradise before finishing on Broadbeach. It is due to open to the public in June (June 2 apparently). Clearly the network has been made mostly for tourists and students (most northern stop is Griffith Uni) and it makes sense economically considering tourism is the biggest contributor to the Gold Coast economy.

Now obviously Melbourne is the city known for their trams but this isn't quite the copycat move it may appear to be. Sydney is also building a light rail network through their CBD and Perth isn't far away either. Adelaide already has a tram network for anyone who doesn't know. So you can see most major Australian cities are turning to the trams to develop their transport network.

The local paper often runs stories about the negatives with the light rail network without writing about the potential positives. Biased reporting is nothing new though. People driving on the tracks is a concern though...

I think the Gold Coast public will slowly warm to the network over the next 2-3 years and in about 5 years time we'll wonder how we ever lived without it. I suppose it's a bit like the Titans in that sense. I honestly can't believe we used to live in a city with no national sports teams but it wasn't that long ago that this was the case.

Anyway, what do you guys think?

- - - Updated - - -

Here is a picture of a tram passing through Surfers Paradise (Cavill Ave to be specific) for anyone who doesn't know what it looks like.

http://i.imgur.com/w9AWn7s.jpg

[Mexican titan]

WOFTAM. The cost is $1.8billion. Would have got many buses for a fraction of this cost. This supposedly was built to ease future traffic congestion however will not make one bit of difference.
I would like a wager that the second stage will never happen.

[Toads]

I'm all for progress on the Coast, but this is the biggest stuff up that I've seen in my time. The negative publicity is justified, because it's probably going to cost twice as much to remove it in 10-15 years time.

As Mexican Titan said, heaps cheaper to update/upgrade the Bus System, and still have change for something like a Sky Rail from the Coast to the Hinterland or similar sort of projects to reinvigorate the Coasts infrastructure.

[C-Whiz]

WOFTAM. The cost is $1.8billion. :surprise: That's outrageous. I guess Tom Tate pocketed about half of that in kick-backs.


Would have got many buses for a fraction of this cost. This supposedly was built to ease future traffic congestion however will not make one bit of difference.
I would like a wager that the second stage will never happen.BS, traffic is gonna be worse, already is. I know people say "it's not finished" but it will continue to swallow up more road space (parking space) as they realise it needs more room to operate safely, and I can already see the tiny one way laneway through Surfers being closed to vehicle traffic because it will just be too dangerous. Same goes for parts of Southport. Some of Southport is already off limits to cars.

I am all for the idea of what it is meant to be, but like most things GCCC planning and approved, it is a class A far cup.

The route is wrong, and it doesn't solve the whole issue of leaving your car at home. It just means we drive and park somewhere else, and they haven't got parking close to the tram stops. In fact, most of the parking that was around has been removed to make way for the trams. Tourists and shoppers might like it, but that will hardly solve the extra traffic congestion this is creating.

Great idea, crap planning and execution.

[CoastSportsFan]

WOFTAM. The cost is $1.8billion. Would have got many buses for a fraction of this cost. This supposedly was built to ease future traffic congestion however will not make one bit of difference.
I would like a wager that the second stage will never happen.

Pretty harsh to say it's a waste of money before it's even opened. The cost may be $1.8billion (haven't seen that officially reported anywhere. source?) for the 13km route but it doesn't seem to be that bad considering Sydney's new 12km tram line is predicted to cost $1.6billion. Just seems to be the standard cost of building light rail these days.

If you look at the Translink site you'll find the bus system is being completely overhauled and will no longer have any buses running along the tram route. This means less buses on the road through Southport, Main Beach, Surfers Paradise and Broadbeach while more attention will be given to other routes through the addition of more buses. Surely having less buses on the GC Highway will ease congestion?


I'm all for progress on the Coast, but this is the biggest stuff up that I've seen in my time. The negative publicity is justified, because it's probably going to cost twice as much to remove it in 10-15 years time.

As Mexican Titan said, heaps cheaper to update/upgrade the Bus System, and still have change for something like a Sky Rail from the Coast to the Hinterland or similar sort of projects to reinvigorate the Coasts infrastructure.

You really believe they will remove it in 10-15 years? Look at the Monorail in Broadbeach as an example of something that simply cost too much to pull down.

Buying/adding more buses would just result in more congestion. Do we really want gridlock in the future?


:surprise: That's outrageous. I guess Tom Tate pocketed about half of that in kick-backs.

BS, traffic is gonna be worse, already is. I know people say "it's not finished" but it will continue to swallow up more road space (parking space) as they realise it needs more room to operate safely, and I can already see the tiny one way laneway through Surfers being closed to vehicle traffic because it will just be too dangerous. Same goes for parts of Southport. Some of Southport is already off limits to cars.

I am all for the idea of what it is meant to be, but like most things GCCC planning and approved, it is a class A far cup.

The route is wrong, and it doesn't solve the whole issue of leaving your car at home. It just means we drive and park somewhere else, and they haven't got parking close to the tram stops. In fact, most of the parking that was around has been removed to make way for the trams. Tourists and shoppers might like it, but that will hardly solve the extra traffic congestion this is creating.

Great idea, crap planning and execution.

How could you possibly know traffic is going to be worse? You say it'll take up road space but if you drive along the GC Highway these days it is 2 lanes through Broadbeach up to Southport which was the exact same amount of lanes they had before the tram line was installed. How often do people drive through Surfers Paradise Boulevard anyway? It's not like it's a major road that requires four lanes.

I agree the parking needs to improve. They MUST build car parks near the tram stops if they expect the locals to use the system.

[Toads]

You really believe they will remove it in 10-15 years? Look at the Monorail in Broadbeach as an example of something that simply cost too much to pull down.

CSF, how long have you lived on the Coast? I the reason I ask, is because it'd be interesting to know how long you've seen the place develop. If you've been around long enough you may develop an idea what works and what doesn't. Please don't tell me you're another Melbournite that's been here a couple of years and start proclaiming you know what'll work best for the Coast.

Anyway, the thing with Broadbeach Monorail. It doesn't foul up the roads. Whereas the Light Rail is in direct competition with the already congested streets along the Strip. As Whiz said, great idea just in the wrong place. So once the novelty of the Light Rail wears off, and it starts losing money hand over fist. They will most likely have to rip up in time to get traffic flowing again to the best of it's ability.

Until then, it's going to be another white elephant project that'll cost Ratepayers for many years to come. Because it won't even get close to balancing the books itself.

[C-Whiz]

CSF, how long have you lived on the Coast? You say you are born and bred Queenslander, can you please give us a break down of how long you have lived where in Qld? Just to be fair, I am born and bred Gold Coaster, have lived in Sydney and NSW, Melbourne ( and around Victoria) and WA for in excess of 12 months each, but spent my first 17 years on the GC and the past 15 years on the GC. I have been to every Capital city in Australia, a lot of VERY regional places in Australia, I have crossed the Nullabor. I say all this because I have traveled, I have seen ALL the states and Capitals of Australia and lived in 4 states for over a year, so I am not some redneck Qld'er speaking without a view on the World. I have been on the Melbourne tram system, which the roads and traffic have been designed AROUND, and I have traveled on the recently pulled down Sydney monorail, that didn't affect traffic and still they pulled it down because it wasn't worth having.


Pretty harsh to say it's a waste of money before it's even opened. The cost may be $1.8billion (haven't seen that officially reported anywhere. source?) for the 13km route but it doesn't seem to be that bad considering Sydney's new 12km tram line is predicted to cost $1.6billion. Just seems to be the standard cost of building light rail these days.$1.8BILLION is a waste of money! It's tracks are laid on exisitng roadways. I had no idea it would cost anywhere near that. The only significant cost i expected was for the bridge at Southport. Standard cost? Where do you pull this BS from.


If you look at the Translink site you'll find the bus system is being completely overhauled and will no longer have any buses running along the tram route. This means less buses on the road through Southport, Main Beach, Surfers Paradise and Broadbeach while more attention will be given to other routes through the addition of more buses. Surely having less buses on the GC Highway will ease congestion?No mate, it means EVERY SINGLE PERSON who doesn't use the tram will now have to use private transport to get into/out of/around these places. Nightmare scenario. And those who do WANT to use the tram now have to find a way to get to a tram station, which means more inconveinience. Tell me who you think is actually going to find using a tram more convinient? Sure, some tourists might find it fun and novel, but please tell us how many local people are going to want to drive to a bus stop, get on a bus to take them to a tram station so they can catch a tram into a place where they previously could just drive to? And how much will all this "convieniance" cost each time you "want" to use it?




You really believe they will remove it in 10-15 years? Look at the Monorail in Broadbeach as an example of something that simply cost too much to pull down.This shows the stupidity of most of your comments. using your logic, because it is too expensive to pull something down that was a waste of money to put up, in your mind it makes it valid.

Buying/adding more buses would just result in more congestion. Do we really want gridlock in the future?I don't want gridlock in the present or in the future, but we have it now and I can;t see it getting better. As I said, what will happen is once this starts to affect more and more people, the GCCC will "redesign" the roads to try and rectify their lack of planning, which will result in more traffic issues while it is done. The simple fact is, they cannot widen roads around/through Surfers, and every time they add something to the roads, whether cafe strips, garden beds, or tram tracks, it reduces the actual road space, and the first thing to go is parking which means tradies/couriers/suppliers who keep the tourist strip running can't get in/around Surfers.



How could you possibly know traffic is going to be worse? You say it'll take up road space but if you drive along the GC Highway these days it is 2 lanes through Broadbeach up to Southport which was the exact same amount of lanes they had before the tram line was installed. How often do people drive through Surfers Paradise Boulevard anyway? It's not like it's a major road that requires four lanes. You are a moron on most matters, and this just adds to the list. I drive in/around there about 4-5 times a day. What about you? When was the last time you HAD to drive into Surfers? And find a park in the middle of Surfers? Not in a carpark, but outside a venue somewhere on a road? When was the last time you tried driving through Southport CBD, with one way streets, no right/left turns, full roads closed, etc, where it used to be 2 ways and you could get to ANYWHERE in Southport in your car?


I agree the parking needs to improve. They MUST build car parks near the tram stops if they expect the locals to use the system.In your feeble mind, where do you think they are magically going to build car parks near the tram stations? I know from most of your posts that you either go and find a lot of "facts" to support an argument, or failing that option you just spout BS that you seem ill-informed about.

As far as how do I know it will be worse? I already do because it already is! I would drive through Surfers (the whole tram network is part of my driving route) at least 10 times a week, weekends included, sometimes spending a whole day in Surfers trying to get from one place to the next. It is currently a nightmare. it won't get better as they start to expand on the tracks with "stations" and now are talking about putting gardens and other "objects" around tracks to stop people walking or driving onto them. All part of the lack of planning that is typical of the GCCC.

As I said, great idea, typically poor planning and project management from the GCCC means we will all suffer for it. The light rail is a good idea, but putting the tracks right through the main road through Surfers (which is only a goat track anyway) was just dumb.

What will happen though, is initially everyone will want to ride it, so it will be hailed a "great success", the councillors will all tell themselves what visionaries they are, then give themselves a payrise, and then the next generation will have to spend another billion fixing the mess. Standard political BS.

Rant over.

For now.

[shamus]

Go Whiz....:fight::fight:

[Toads]

You say you are born and bred Queenslander, can you please give us a break down of how long you have lived where in Qld? Just to be fair, I am born and bred Gold Coaster, have lived in Sydney and NSW, Melbourne ( and around Victoria) and WA for in excess of 12 months each, but spent my first 17 years on the GC and the past 15 years on the GC. I have been to every Capital city in Australia, a lot of VERY regional places in Australia, I have crossed the Nullabor. I say all this because I have traveled, I have seen ALL the states and Capitals of Australia and lived in 4 states for over a year, so I am not some redneck Qld'er speaking without a view on the World. I have been on the Melbourne tram system, which the roads and traffic have been designed AROUND, and I have traveled on the recently pulled down Sydney monorail, that didn't affect traffic and still they pulled it down because it wasn't worth having.

TBH Whiz, what you blurted out there is no interest to me. If you felt the need to get that off your chest, good for you. But if you feel you need something from me that's of any relevance to this topic. I spent 32 years on the Coast (1980-2012).

[C-Whiz]

TBH Whiz, what you blurted out there is no interest to me. If you felt the need to get that off your chest, good for you. But if you feel you need something from me that's of any relevance to this topic. I spent 32 years on the Coast (1980-2012).Haha, no mate, I'm asking CSF the same question you asked him.

No one cares about you Toads. ;) Jokes mate.

Sorry if it came across as me challenging you about where you are from.

Just saying, CSF says he's a born and bred Queenslander, but comes across as anything but. Just wanted to state my case before I challenged him on his.

[CoastSportsFan]

CSF, how long have you lived on the Coast? I the reason I ask, is because it'd be interesting to know how long you've seen the place develop. If you've been around long enough you may develop an idea what works and what doesn't. Please don't tell me you're another Melbournite that's been here a couple of years and start proclaiming you know what'll work best for the Coast.

Anyway, the thing with Broadbeach Monorail. It doesn't foul up the roads. Whereas the Light Rail is in direct competition with the already congested streets along the Strip. As Whiz said, great idea just in the wrong place. So once the novelty of the Light Rail wears off, and it starts losing money hand over fist. They will most likely have to rip up in time to get traffic flowing again to the best of it's ability.

Until then, it's going to be another white elephant project that'll cost Ratepayers for many years to come. Because it won't even get close to balancing the books itself.

Born in Southport, lived here 20+ years. Public transport has always been quite poor and we definitely needed something to change. I don't understand how you can say the light rail won't work when it's never been tried before. I hate to keep using AFL analogies because I'm just going to be called an AFL troll but people said the same thing about Carrara Stadium when they were planning to redevelop it. People said it would be a white elephant based on previous attempts. Well, it isn't. It's regularly pulling decent sized crowds and will be the main stadium used for the Comm Games in 2018. I'm not naive enough to say the light rail is definitely going to work but I just think it's way too early to label it a failure.


You say you are born and bred Queenslander, can you please give us a break down of how long you have lived where in Qld? Just to be fair, I am born and bred Gold Coaster, have lived in Sydney and NSW, Melbourne ( and around Victoria) and WA for in excess of 12 months each, but spent my first 17 years on the GC and the past 15 years on the GC. I have been to every Capital city in Australia, a lot of VERY regional places in Australia, I have crossed the Nullabor. I say all this because I have traveled, I have seen ALL the states and Capitals of Australia and lived in 4 states for over a year, so I am not some redneck Qld'er speaking without a view on the World. I have been on the Melbourne tram system, which the roads and traffic have been designed AROUND, and I have traveled on the recently pulled down Sydney monorail, that didn't affect traffic and still they pulled it down because it wasn't worth having.

As I've already stated, born in Southport and lived my whole life here. Been on holidays to all the major cities in Australia with the exception of Perth and Tassie (Launceston and Hobart). Also been to lots of regional areas like Newcastle, Cairns and Townsville. I've seen plenty of this beautiful country we call home.


$1.8BILLION is a waste of money! It's tracks are laid on exisitng roadways. I had no idea it would cost anywhere near that. The only significant cost i expected was for the bridge at Southport. Standard cost? Where do you pull this BS from.

First of all, I can't find anything official that says it actually costed $1.8 billion. The point I was trying to get across was the fact that Sydney's is going to cost $1.6 billion so the costs are pretty similar for around the same distance. Sydney also don't have to build a bridge.


No mate, it means EVERY SINGLE PERSON who doesn't use the tram will now have to use private transport to get into/out of/around these places. Nightmare scenario. And those who do WANT to use the tram now have to find a way to get to a tram station, which means more inconveinience. Tell me who you think is actually going to find using a tram more convinient? Sure, some tourists might find it fun and novel, but please tell us how many local people are going to want to drive to a bus stop, get on a bus to take them to a tram station so they can catch a tram into a place where they previously could just drive to? And how much will all this "convieniance" cost each time you "want" to use it?

I think university students will find the tram convenient. That's nearly 20,000 people right there. Not saying they'll all use it because they won't but that's still a lot of people who could use it. As you've pointed out, tourists will also likely use the system. Like I said in my previous post, students and tourists will be the main people using the trams. I also expect plenty of people that aren't students/tourists will use the system to get from Surfers to Broadbeach on Friday and Saturday nights.


This shows the stupidity of most of your comments. using your logic, because it is too expensive to pull something down that was a waste of money to put up, in your mind it makes it valid.I don't want gridlock in the present or in the future, but we have it now and I can;t see it getting better. As I said, what will happen is once this starts to affect more and more people, the GCCC will "redesign" the roads to try and rectify their lack of planning, which will result in more traffic issues while it is done. The simple fact is, they cannot widen roads around/through Surfers, and every time they add something to the roads, whether cafe strips, garden beds, or tram tracks, it reduces the actual road space, and the first thing to go is parking which means tradies/couriers/suppliers who keep the tourist strip running can't get in/around Surfers.

No no, I didn't say it was a valid reason to keep it. I was trying to say that it may be the reason it is kept if it does end up being a failure. You can't see traffic getting better? Really? There are roadworks everywhere and streets have been shut down but there is no way it is going to get better in your mind? What a ridiculous thing to say.

I see your point about couriers and the like not being able to park in Surfers. Don't really know how you can avoid that though and now I'm starting to think you are using personal reasons as to why the tram shouldn't exist. Fair enough, of course people will fight for what affects them directly but majority of the people living on the Gold Coast don't need to park along Surfers Paradise Boulevard on a daily basis. We do live in a democracy, majority rules and unfortunately you are in the minority in this case.


You are a moron on most matters, and this just adds to the list. I drive in/around there about 4-5 times a day. What about you? When was the last time you HAD to drive into Surfers? And find a park in the middle of Surfers? Not in a carpark, but outside a venue somewhere on a road? When was the last time you tried driving through Southport CBD, with one way streets, no right/left turns, full roads closed, etc, where it used to be 2 ways and you could get to ANYWHERE in Southport in your car?

I drive through Surfers Paradise once every second day. No doubt the roads are an absolute mess right now but once the roadworks are finished the traffic flow will improve. As I said before, I see your point about the parking along Surfers Paradise Boulevard but I'm not sure a lot can be done to change this. I drive through the Southport CBD area every day. Scarborough street is really the only one that has been majorly affected. I know that's one of the main roads in Southport but you can still get around it if you know what you are doing. Again, I think you're taking personal experiences into this and painting a negative picture when a vast majority of people won't be facing the issues you do on a regular basis.


In your feeble mind, where do you think they are magically going to build car parks near the tram stations? I know from most of your posts that you either go and find a lot of "facts" to support an argument, or failing that option you just spout BS that you seem ill-informed about.

Well Pacific Fair is getting a makeover so that's a good start. I don't have facts for this one, it was simply my opinion (and yours?) that they should build more car parks near the tram stops. Whether it's possible is a totally different issue.


As far as how do I know it will be worse? I already do because it already is! I would drive through Surfers (the whole tram network is part of my driving route) at least 10 times a week, weekends included, sometimes spending a whole day in Surfers trying to get from one place to the next. It is currently a nightmare. it won't get better as they start to expand on the tracks with "stations" and now are talking about putting gardens and other "objects" around tracks to stop people walking or driving onto them. All part of the lack of planning that is typical of the GCCC.

Mate, it's bad because it's not finished. I don't have to tell you how bad it was a year and a half ago when even more streets were shut down. You can't honestly tell me it was easier to get to Surfers Paradise Boulevard a year and a half ago than it is now?


As I said, great idea, typically poor planning and project management from the GCCC means we will all suffer for it. The light rail is a good idea, but putting the tracks right through the main road through Surfers (which is only a goat track anyway) was just dumb.

You may well be right. It may be a failure but I still believe it's too early to make that call.


What will happen though, is initially everyone will want to ride it, so it will be hailed a "great success", the councillors will all tell themselves what visionaries they are, then give themselves a payrise, and then the next generation will have to spend another billion fixing the mess. Standard political BS.

Rant over.

For now.

Entirely possible that will happen. Only time will tell. Unless you have a time machine I think your predictions are a bit premature.

[Mexican titan]

Interesting comments from the red and blue corners and very lengthy. I can see holes in CSF's argument such as:
1) more buses will add to road congestion - first time I have heard that before as I thought buses took people out of cars!
2) I live at Runaway Bay. I used to be able to get a bus from here all the way down the Coast. Now to get past Southport you have to change buses which is a con to get people to use light rail if they are wanting to get off between Southport and Broady.
3) I really can't be effed finding the source for the cost but I remember reading it. You mention the Sydney tramway is a similar distance and the cost is not that far apart (yes, before you say its $200 million blah blah, look at it as being about 10% difference). So it's costly, very costly.
4) you think car parks might get built along the tramway. We are talking the suburbs of Southport, Surfers and Broadbeach which are some of the most expensive land areas on the Coast. Idiotic.
That's just for starters.

[CoastSportsFan]

Interesting comments from the red and blue corners and very lengthy. I can see holes in CSF's argument such as:
1) more buses will add to road congestion - first time I have heard that before as I thought buses took people out of cars!
2) I live at Runaway Bay. I used to be able to get a bus from here all the way down the Coast. Now to get past Southport you have to change buses which is a con to get people to use light rail if they are wanting to get off between Southport and Broady.
3) I really can't be effed finding the source for the cost but I remember reading it. You mention the Sydney tramway is a similar distance and the cost is not that far apart (yes, before you say its $200 million blah blah, look at it as being about 10% difference). So it's costly, very costly.
4) you think car parks might get built along the tramway. We are talking the suburbs of Southport, Surfers and Broadbeach which are some of the most expensive land areas on the Coast. Idiotic.
That's just for starters.

1) Majority of people on the Gold Coast use cars even though buses are available. Just because you give the option doesn't mean people will take it.
2) Can't argue with this one. Transferring will become a part of GCers lives if they want to go to those areas.
3) That's nice that you cbf finding the source. If I were to state the light rail costed $1 billion it just as valid as your statement without a source. Of course $200 million is a lot of money but, as I said before, Sydney's route is 1km less distance when compared to the GC version. That's 7% extra. So basically 3% to build the bridge ($540,000).
4) I said car parks SHOULD be built along the tramway, not they might or will. I specifically said whether it's possibly is an entirely different issue.

[Toads]

Born in Southport, lived here 20+ years. Public transport has always been quite poor and we definitely needed something to change. I don't understand how you can say the light rail won't work when it's never been tried before. I hate to keep using AFL analogies because I'm just going to be called an AFL troll but people said the same thing about Carrara Stadium when they were planning to redevelop it. People said it would be a white elephant based on previous attempts. Well, it isn't. It's regularly pulling decent sized crowds and will be the main stadium used for the Comm Games in 2018. I'm not naive enough to say the light rail is definitely going to work but I just think it's way too early to label it a failure.

Ok, no worries. Good to have an understanding to where we're both at with it.

As for Carrara, it has spent more years sitting there idle than not. IIRC, it's been the home ground to Brisbane Bears, Daikyo Dolphins (Baseball), Gold Coast Chargers and now the Gold Coast Suns. Personally, the latest redevelopment is what it needed, now it's a facility that can be used for Concerts and hopefully the occasional ODI Cricket series (and similar). It appears to be working out well for the Suns at the moment. But I guess time will reveal how permanent that will be as well. Hopefully history wont repeat itself.

As for the Light Rail. As you know, I can't actually say it will be a failure as of right now. But going by what I've seen over the years and opinions from other long term locals. No one is overly excited about it. I do understand it could be a good idea as the Coast grows in time. But at the same time, the Strip from Main Beach to Broadbeach might have to regulated as precinct and only allow Locals and Service Vehicles into the area (that being the worst case scenario). And if that becomes the case. The convenience and cost will most like deter many from bothering from entering the area.

Also, you would know being a long term local, many locals for several years have been avoiding the area if they can, and now the Light Rail is about to fire up, that'll probably keep them away more so. I used to live at Angler's Paradise, and last couple of years the traffic got that bad, and I had to either go to Southport or Surfers by myself. I would get on my pushy and ride in there. As I found it quicker to get in there and avoid the hassle of finding a car park. That's how bad the congestion has become on the Coast (IMO), and I can't see the Light Rail alleviating it either. If anything I guess it'll only add to it.

[C-Whiz]

Born in Southport, lived here 20+ years. OK, so I will accept you should have a good knowledge of Southport traffic and roads.
I don't understand how you can say the light rail won't work when it's never been tried before. For all the reasons I have given you. Lets play a game, where you actually support your argument with some real ideas that outline the positives. You are the king of claiming to want to have a "discussion", so give us some real, tangible points to discuss.

As I've already stated, born in Southport and lived my whole life here. This gives me a chance to reiterate you should have a good understanding of Southport road infrastructure.


I think university students will find the tram convenient. That's nearly 20,000 people right there. Not saying they'll all use it because they won't but that's still a lot of people who could use it. Mate, this is as ridiculous a point of argument as I have heard. University students might use it, and there is a lot of them, but they might not, but they could. Strong selling point.


As you've pointed out, tourists will also likely use the system. Like I said in my previous post, students and tourists will be the main people using the trams. Let's assume you are right, that these two groups of people are the biggest users of this system, how does this help alleviate traffic congestion? Get all those pesky Uni students and tourists off our roads! Wow, that will really free things up.
I also expect plenty of people that aren't students/tourists will use the system to get from Surfers to Broadbeach on Friday and Saturday nights.Again, I think this will be an absolute minimum of people, because almost no one will drive to a bus stop, catch a bus to a tram station, catch a tram into town for a night out and then reverse the proceedure to get home. You are living in a fairy tale mate.



No no, I didn't say it was a valid reason to keep it. I was trying to say that it may be the reason it is kept if it does end up being a failure. again, really positive reasons to spend $1.8 Billion to see how it goes.
You can't see traffic getting better? Really? There are roadworks everywhere and streets have been shut down but there is no way it is going to get better in your mind? Firstly, straight up, unequivaclly, NO, it won't be better than it was before they started this shamozzle, and the fact that you think in a "make it really sh!t to start with, then make it not quite as sh!t at the end, and we will say it got better" is why I think you are a moron.
What a ridiculous thing to say.You said it sister.

I see your point about couriers and the like not being able to park in Surfers.
Don't really know how you can avoid that thoughby not stuffing up all the parking that was available :doh:
and now I'm starting to think you are using personal reasons as to why the tram shouldn't exist.Tell me what reasons you would prefer, and I can substantiate my position.


No doubt the roads are an absolute mess right now but once the roadworks are finished the traffic flow will improve. See my point above with regard to this way of thinking.



I drive through the Southport CBD area every day. Again, this makes me think you should have an understanding of Southport roads and traffic...
Scarborough street is really the only one that has been majorly affected. And then you prove you know sweet FA about Southport roads, even though you claim to have lived there for the past 20 years or so.

The road in front of the Cecil hotel is TOTALLY CLOSED (Nerang Street), so every person has to drive up and around the police station, around the courthouse and then link back up with the road after waiting at another set of lights. This is all because they closed about 50M of road. Don't get me started on people coming southbound who have to drive about 5K's just to get back into Southport if they don't know they have to do the police station/Courthouse shuffle before they pass it.

Then there is the traffic lights where the roundabout used to be, down near the church/RSL. Now everyone has to stop and wait, where traffic used to flow. It used to be traffic lights, but was changed to a roundabout years ago to allow for better flow. now it is back to traffic lights, with all lanes filtering into single lanes. Then there is the ENTIRE road from Ada Bell Way up to the lights at Ferry Road where none of the connecting roads can turn right coming onto it. Everyone coming out of EVERY house in ALL THOSE FEEDER ROADS now has to turn left and go all the way around Southport (see point above) just to get onto the highway. They used to just turn right onto Queen Street. Tell me again CSF how Southport hasn't been affected.

Then there is the fact that even though you can't turn left onto Nerang Street at the Cecil, and have to now go around the police station, behind the Courthouse, wait at some more lights, and then turn right to get onto the street 50m up the road from where you were 5 minutes ago ( it literally takes 5 minutes to get 50m from where you used to be able to turn left), and then when you get to the place you want to be, well then you CANNOT STOP OR TURN RIGHT/U TURN for.... well I don't even know how far you have to go to turn around! The first available option is past the old hospital, and then when you can turn right, you have to drive down that road for a while, do an illegal U turn, and then come back to those lights, then drive back a few hunderd meters to get to all the private hospitals that people need to get to, but then they can't park anywhere because all the parking has been removed! Tell me again CSF how
Scarborough street is really the only one that has been majorly affected.I coud go on, but what is the point???


I know that's one of the main roads in Southport but you can still get around it if you know what you are doing. and in your twisted logic, this is better???
Again, I think you're taking personal experiences into this and painting a negative picture when a vast majority of people won't be facing the issues you do on a regular basis.Honestly, do you even read what you write? Which vast majority CSF? The tourist and Uni students who even according to you, could, but probably wont be using this tram? Or the other 98% of the local population who won't be using this tram on a daily basis, but will be impeded by it on a daily basis?

I don't have facts for this one, it was simply my opinion (and yours?) that they should build more car parks near the tram stops. Whether it's possible is a totally different issue.So the one concession you make, that we both agree on, is that they need parking at the tram stations, but as I have already pointed out, there isn't even enough room to park a car, so how do you suppose they fit in an entire carpark?

OK, I have said it many times, you are a troll and a moron, and I don't want to waste any more of my time pointing out the obvious to you because you don't want to accept any of it. Give me valid points with some intelligent basis for raising them, and we can discus them, but please don't throw any more of your "thoughts" into this "discussion" because it just wastes my time.

I've said enough. Feel free to spew forth more illogical garbage in response.

[Mexican titan]

I don't want to waste any more of my time pointing out the obvious to you because you don't want to accept any of it. Give me valid points with some intelligent basis for raising them, and we can discus them, but please don't throw any more of your "thoughts" into this "discussion" because it just wastes my time.

I've said enough. Feel free to spew forth more illogical garbage in response.

Well C-Whiz that will not work. A few times now I have thought I have reached the end of the discussion and suggested no more but like an annoying relation back he comes. I wish he played in the forwards for us because he hits it up more frequently than any of our blokes. It's quite clear now we could tell him the Titans play in blue and he will argue that its not correct and that it's sky blue.

[CoastSportsFan]

I have decided to not respond to everyone that has quoted me. I'll just simply say that I will not judge the light rail until it opens.