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View Full Version : A REAL and FAIR comparison between the Titans and Suns



CoastSportsFan
17-09-13, 01:34 PM
Before you chime in with your anti-AFL campaign please consider that this is a genuine attempt at comparing the two teams who hail from the Gold Coast. This is MY opinion and I invite you to share yours but please don't take this thread into the gutter. Try to be fair. This is just based on knowledge I have of the two teams. I will assess both teams in the following criteria: team success, fan base, stadium, marketability, community work, tv time and profitability.

Team Success
Really a no brainer here. The Titans reached a preliminary final in 2010 while the highest the Suns have finished was 14th.

Winner: Titans

Fan Base
Tough to judge. Not sure of the exact number of members but I believe the Titans have around 7.5k members and the Suns have 12.5k members. This is a big plus for the Suns as it shows their fans are willing to invest in the club. This isn't the first time this has happened either, the Suns have always had a larger membership base than the Titans. Another factor for the fan base is crowd attendances. The Titans have fallen off considerably in the last few years while the Suns crowds have been getting better. Both average around 14k at the moment. So... although I believe the Titans may have more total fans, I have to give to the Suns fans because they are more willing to invest in the team. Therefore, the better fan base IMO.

Winner: Suns

Stadium
A 27k stadium vs a 25k staduim looks like a simple contest but there is more to it. The stadium deal the Titans have is not good (as we all know) while the Suns have quite a good deal. The Suns stadium will also be upgraded to 40,000 seats in four years time. Having said that, Robina stadium is located right next to a train station which is good. I have to go with Carrara though just because of what the stadium will become in the very short future. If there were no plans to upgrade Carrara it would be a very tight contest.

Winner: Suns

Marketability

Two factors here. The Titans get more exposure locally while the Sun get more exposure nationally. He may not be that popular in QLD or NSW but Gary Ablett is a huge name around the rest of Australia. By all accounts Ablett is the best player in the AFL. The Titans most marketable player is probably Jamal Idris but his hype has fallen off lately. I'm going to give this one a draw because the Titans are better off on the GC but the Suns are better off nationally.

Winner: Draw

Community Work

Anyone who followed the Titans in their first few years would know how much community work they did. It was huge and was very effectively. However, I feel this has dropped off in the recent years with school visits being one of the only forms of community work the Titans do these days. After doing some research I discovered that the Suns model is community based and they do an enormous amount of work in the community. Holding an event at their stadium for the homeless population of the GC is just one of many example of what they have done for the community this year. I gotta give this one to the Suns.

Winner: Suns

TV Time

Easy. Suns are shown live every week while the Titans aren't. The Suns also have their own show on channel 7. No contest.

Winner: Suns

Profitability

The Titans problem with debt has been well publicised but David May stated earlier this year that the Titans no longer are in doubt and make a small profit annually. The Suns made a profit in their first year but haven't reported on it in the last two years so I can only presume they are breaking even or making a loss. For this reason I have to give it to the Titans but it must be noted that the Suns could be making a profit and I just don't know about it.

Winner: Titans

You guys have a go. Feel free to add different forms of criteria but please try to stay fair. This is intended to be a civil conversation and not offensive.

Surfers66
17-09-13, 02:02 PM
I think you summed it up pretty well.

I like both the suns and Titans equally and for different reasons.
I have been die hard league for all of my life but now the tide is turning.

I would much rather go to the AFL at Metricon, the stadium, the seating, the food and the atmosphere is much much better.

I prefer to watch league on TV though and that is why the Titans are having a tough time.

CoastSportsFan
17-09-13, 02:30 PM
I think you summed it up pretty well.

I like both the suns and Titans equally and for different reasons.
I have been die hard league for all of my life but now the tide is turning.

I would much rather go to the AFL at Metricon, the stadium, the seating, the food and the atmosphere is much much better.

I prefer to watch league on TV though and that is why the Titans are having a tough time.

You really think the tide is turning? If you what you say is true and the Suns offer the better game day experience then the Titans don't stand much of a chance going forward. Watching the sport on TV literally doesn't help the team at all. I get it though. The argument is that League is better on tv while AFL is better live.

Having said that, you think people are here are buying into the Suns model? I know they expecting to be challenging for premierships over the next few years and that will of course attract the bandwagon fans. Probably some of the same people that showed up to Titans games in 2010.

I can only presume you are a GC resident. You say you have been a league fan your whole life but support the Suns. This isn't a knock at you at all but do you mind explaining why? I'm really curious to learn how the Suns were able to achieve the seemingly impossible.

I guess the biggest question is - have they Gold Coast public accepted the Suns as their own?

Coaster
17-09-13, 03:31 PM
One sport gets a point for fisting a behind

Nick
17-09-13, 04:24 PM
To be frank, I find AFL boring to watch. Similar to throwing chips to seagulls down at the spit.

I have played both league and AFL and you have to appreciate the fitness involved with AFL, they are very fit blokes. I dont mind playing it either but when it comes to watching it I cant sit there for more than 10 mins.

CoastSportsFan
17-09-13, 07:31 PM
One sport gets a point for fisting a behind


To be frank, I find AFL boring to watch. Similar to throwing chips to seagulls down at the spit.

I have played both league and AFL and you have to appreciate the fitness involved with AFL, they are very fit blokes. I dont mind playing it either but when it comes to watching it I cant sit there for more than 10 mins.

Okay. I don't know why this has happened when I explicitly said lets not turn this into your opinion on AFL the sport. We are comparing the two teams from each respective sport. This isn't an RL v AFL argument thread. Now that we have that sorted, how do you think the two team compare? Look at the criteria I have provided in the first post and tell me your opinion.

Hail Sezer
17-09-13, 07:33 PM
All Blacks

Coaster
17-09-13, 07:49 PM
it is not comparing 2 teams, it is comparing 2 sports.

I am not going to defend the Titans atm, but that doesn't mean i think the Suns or AFL are better. I like League, pure and simple, that is why i am on a League forum, and not an AFL forum or the suns forum, if they have one.

If you wanted you could break down all the reasons why being married to a woman is not as good as hanging with your mates.

That still doesn't mean anyone would want to switch sides, and start batting for the other team.

CoastSportsFan
17-09-13, 08:18 PM
it is not comparing 2 teams, it is comparing 2 sports.

I am not going to defend the Titans atm, but that doesn't mean i think the Suns or AFL are better. I like League, pure and simple, that is why i am on a League forum, and not an AFL forum or the suns forum, if they have one.

If you wanted you could break down all the reasons why being married to a woman is not as good as hanging with your mates.

That still doesn't mean anyone would want to switch sides, and start batting for the other team.

I didn't compare the sports in the first post? I just referred to things I knew about the two teams. I'm not asking you to defend the Titans and I'm not telling you to like the Suns or AFL. You are allowed to like League. We all do I think? But at the same time, you have to allow someone the right to like other sports as well. Since we live in a city that only has two pro sports teams it is interesting to compare them.

I'm not asking you to switch teams. I just want to hear how you think both teams are trekking at the moment and compare them. Surfers66 had the right idea with his response.

thelwall
17-09-13, 08:21 PM
im the same i prefer to watch afl live and nrl on tv

Toads
17-09-13, 08:22 PM
My comments aren't intended as a AFL bash. But it does make me wonder how the Suns will survive once their pin up boy (Gary Abblet Jr) contract expires and he heads back down south. Fair enough, he may sign on for longer, but if previous whispers are anything to go by, it appears he does eventually intend to return down that way..

So post GA jr is going to give us a better indication to how the Suns pan out in the long run (I feel)..

CoastSportsFan
17-09-13, 08:27 PM
My comments aren't intended as a AFL bash. But it does make me wonder how the Suns will survive once their pin up boy (Gary Abblet Jr) contract expires and he heads back down south. Fair enough, he may sign on for longer, but if previous whispers are anything to go by, it appears he does eventually intend to return down that way..

So post GA jr is going to give us a real indication to how the Suns pan out in the long run (I feel)..

Thank you for your opinion. So what do you think will happen if/when Gary Ablett leaves the Suns? According to wikipedia he is contracted until 2015 so that gives them minimum two more years with him. Is it possible another one of their players could become a poster boy? I guess we sort of struggled a bit after Princey.

Toads
17-09-13, 08:35 PM
Thank you for your opinion. So what do you think will happen if/when Gary Ablett leaves the Suns? According to wikipedia he is contracted until 2015 so that gives them minimum two more years with him. Is it possible another one of their players could become a poster boy? I guess we sort of struggled a bit after Princey.

Yeah, fair call. I was just about to mention that the Titans have gone through that development stage with our pin up boys/ drawcards of Princey, Rat, Friendy, Campbell, etc.. and now we're into rebuilding stage after they've since moved on. But unfortunately, I feel we're going to struggle for some time to come until we have some major changes with our Coaching Department. We've got a good squad on paper, it's just a matter of getting them all in sync 'n getting the best out of them as a team.

As for the Suns squad, I gotta be honest 'n wouldn't know who any of them are, apart from two or three players. So I really don't know if they have any others that are rising to the surface to take over the helm (post GA jr).

CoastSportsFan
17-09-13, 08:53 PM
Yeah, fair call. I was just about to mention that the Titans have gone through that development stage with our pin up boys/ drawcards of Princey, Rat, Friendy, Campbell, etc.. and now we're into rebuilding stage after they've since moved on. But unfortunately, I feel we're going to struggle for some time to come until we have some major changes with our Coaching Department. We've got a good squad on paper, it's just a matter of getting them all in sync 'n getting the best out of them as a team.

As for the Suns squad, I gotta be honest 'n wouldn't know who any of them are, apart from two or three players. So I really don't know if they have any others that are rising to the surface to take over the helm (post GA jr).

So obviously this will affect the marketability of both teams without a proper post boy. As I alluded to before, Jamal seems to be our poster boy now but is no where near as hyped as he used to be. The Suns will be hurt by Gary Ablett's departure even if they have another poster boy by that time. I have read articles that have stated he might be the best player ever so it's obviously a huge loss.

So the question I would ask you know is - how do the Titans/Suns improve in the areas of criteria I pointed out. How do the Titans improve their fan base, stadium, community work and tv time? Alternatively, how do the Suns improve team success and profitability? I understand you may not be extremely knowledgeable about the Suns but I'd appreciate the effort if you tried.

CoastSportsFan
18-09-13, 06:27 PM
Didn't Gary Abletts father murder a girl?

I just had a look into it and I think using the word murder is going a bit far. She overdosed and he said he provided her with the drug. I could see why you might accuse him of manslaughter but murder is definitely going too far.

Either way, it hasn't seemed to have affected his son at all who seems to be well respected in the AFL community. Painting a person with the same brush as one of their parents isn't far. Now, can we please stay on topic and actually compare the two teams in a fair and civil way?

Ryan
18-09-13, 07:22 PM
A 39 yr old man feeding a 19 yr old girl heroin, ecstasy and amphetamines causing death, then refusing to cooperate with police. Should still be doing time.

CoastSportsFan
18-09-13, 07:44 PM
A 39 yr old man feeding a 19 yr old girl heroin, ecstasy and amphetamines causing death, then refusing to cooperate with police - Murder. Should still be doing time.

You are making a lot of presumptions there and our law system (innocent until proven guilty) doesn't work on presumptions. I haven't read into it a lot but my understanding from the story is that he provided the drugs for her but never any proof that he forced her to take them (happy to be proven wrong). Also, I was reading an article just before that he did cooperate with the police later after receiving death threats. Sure, this may be a lie but again, innocent until proven guilty.

I'm not defending him because he clearly broke the law by obtaining drugs in the first place but unless you were there (were you?) you can't be so presumptuous with a serious matter like death. I also noticed you mentioned both of their ages which is again irrelevant, you just did it to make the situation look worse. It wouldn't matter if an 18 year old or an 80 year old, it's the same thing.

Now I'll ask this again, can we please get on topic instead of talking about a guy that retired like 20 years ago and never played for either Gold Coast team?

Ryan
18-09-13, 07:55 PM
Mature age professional athlete takes young girl to hotel room and provides her with a variety of illegal drugs causing overdose and death, then refuses police cooperation.
No mention of specific age, that sounds better doesn't :)

CoastSportsFan
18-09-13, 08:00 PM
Mature age professional athlete takes young girl to hotel room and provides her with a variety of illegal drugs causing overdose and death, then refuses police cooperation.
No mention of specific age, that sounds better doesn't :)

That sounds like manslaughter ;)

As I said before, I'm not defending him because it does sound very suspicious but to label him a murderer is unjust at this moment in time. So how do you think the Suns and Titans compare to one another? Do you think my analysis in the original post was fair?

Coaster
18-09-13, 08:08 PM
That sounds like manslaughter ;)

As I said before, I'm not defending him because it does sound very suspicious but to label him a murderer is unjust at this moment in time. So how do you think the Suns and Titans compare to one another? Do you think my analysis in the original post was fair?

I cant compare the two teams tbh as i have no interest at all in the other team, but i will say this, if the Suns are behind the Titans in any of the categories, then there needs to be an enquiry, because i have never seen a more unprofessional club then the titans in every aspect of there business.

In saying that, word on the street, is that a lot of ex Vics love the Suns team, and they pay good money to live here, so all the power to you.

Coaster
18-09-13, 08:09 PM
Bird had 2 beers once and got crucified.

CoastSportsFan
18-09-13, 08:34 PM
The Suns star player's father is a murderer who killed a 19yr old girl by overdosing her on drugs in his hotel room.

I don't believe the Titans have any players who can lay claim to anything like that????

Fair comparison?

I just don't see where you are going with this? It's not really related at all to the topic? You couldn't possibly connect that incident with the Suns unless you merely stated that their star player happens to be his son. I remember Jamal's cousin got put in prison for hitting him with a sword or something along those lines. Should this be a blemish on the Titans organisation? I hope your answer is no.


I cant compare the two teams tbh as i have no interest at all in the other team, but i will say this, if the Suns are behind the Titans in any of the categories, then there needs to be an enquiry, because i have never seen a more unprofessional club then the titans in every aspect of there business.

In saying that, word on the street, is that a lot of ex Vics love the Suns team, and they pay good money to live here, so all the power to you.

Well I put us behind in most categories to the Suns with the exception of team success. But you expect that when comparing a team in their seventh year to a team in their third year. How can we catch up to the Suns or is that just wishful thinking?

Ryan
18-09-13, 08:47 PM
Bird had 2 beers once and got crucified.
2? I thought one got spilt?

Toads
19-09-13, 07:31 AM
So obviously this will affect the marketability of both teams without a proper post boy. As I alluded to before, Jamal seems to be our poster boy now but is no where near as hyped as he used to be. The Suns will be hurt by Gary Ablett's departure even if they have another poster boy by that time. I have read articles that have stated he might be the best player ever so it's obviously a huge loss.

So the question I would ask you know is - how do the Titans/Suns improve in the areas of criteria I pointed out. How do the Titans improve their fan base, stadium, community work and tv time? Alternatively, how do the Suns improve team success and profitability? I understand you may not be extremely knowledgeable about the Suns but I'd appreciate the effort if you tried.

Missed visiting the forum yesterday due to other commitments. So only getting back to this now.

What you mentioned about how teams might go about improving on the Coast are all areas that should be covered. But at this stage, it doesn't appear that the Titans Management can address any of those concerns because they appear to be a disfucntional business. The only areas that appear to be working as they should is Player Recruitment and Membership/Ticketing (IMO). Everything else appears to be operating well below par. So until they address and fix what's broken, they can't take it to the next level that you mentioned above. And I honestly believe they cannot go forward until Searle fully relinquishes all of his control to a CEO and Board Members that can have a genuine crack at operating the franchise as it should be (without bias).

As for the Suns, I haven't followed how they operate so I can't comment apart from mentioning that the AFL and NRL need the Coast teams in their Comps, just as much as the Coast needs to be involved in them. There's definitely market here for both, but as usual, it's a challenge to get the locals to support either in the form of fully paid year in year out Memberships.

It doesn't help the Coast's case of being a bit of a transient City, where most folks that live on Coast derive from other areas and/or don't stay long enough to embrace the City as their own. That to me is another major factor not working in the Coasts favour.

If anything, both the Suns and Titans come game days (at home) can have their supporter base outnumbered by the visiting teams supporters. For instance, the Titans can be outnumbered by Warriors, Rabbitohs etc come game day 'n the Suns (I'm lead to believe) can be outnumbered by Collingwood, Geelong etc come game day.

Those are just some obstacles that quickly come to mind. For what it's worth, I'm not really that keen into disecting the issues surrounding both teams on the Coast, and how to go about addressing them. Because I really don't know/follow that much about the Suns to give a fair comment. And with the Titans, we have enough issues to contend with a supporters level, without getting into another teams issues.. :(

C-Whiz
19-09-13, 03:25 PM
A real and fair comparison between the Titans and the Suns?

No problem.

The Titans are better, because they play Rugby League.

Hope that helps settle the matter once and for all.

TITAN PETE
19-09-13, 06:10 PM
I have a "ex" mate who bought a membership with the skid marks & he has 4 memberships to his name after buying one membership, that should sort out the bull**** numbers that the Scums claim, sounds like Adult Auskick to me..

DIEHARD
19-09-13, 08:21 PM
Sometimes I just think this CoastSportsFan just posts about Titans in some attempt to gain trust and credibility to preach to us about the Suns.

Toads
19-09-13, 09:14 PM
Sometimes I just think this CoastSportsFan just posts about Titans in some attempt to gain trust and credibility to preach to us about the Suns.

It might have something to do about the Suns not having a Forum of their own. So ours might be the next best alternative. :D

I gotta admit, CoastSportsFan. Your question during our final home game earlier this year was a bizarre one. Most would ask about the score etc. But your 'left field' one, wanting to know about crowd numbers was quiet unique I thought. :laugh:

CoastSportsFan
21-09-13, 10:00 PM
Missed visiting the forum yesterday due to other commitments. So only getting back to this now.

What you mentioned about how teams might go about improving on the Coast are all areas that should be covered. But at this stage, it doesn't appear that the Titans Management can address any of those concerns because they appear to be a disfucntional business. The only areas that appear to be working as they should is Player Recruitment and Membership/Ticketing (IMO). Everything else appears to be operating well below par. So until they address and fix what's broken, they can't take it to the next level that you mentioned above. And I honestly believe they cannot go forward until Searle fully relinquishes all of his control to a CEO and Board Members that can have a genuine crack at operating the franchise as it should be (without bias).

As for the Suns, I haven't followed how they operate so I can't comment apart from mentioning that the AFL and NRL need the Coast teams in their Comps, just as much as the Coast needs to be involved in them. There's definitely market here for both, but as usual, it's a challenge to get the locals to support either in the form of fully paid year in year out Memberships.

It doesn't help the Coast's case of being a bit of a transient City, where most folks that live on Coast derive from other areas and/or don't stay long enough to embrace the City as their own. That to me is another major factor not working in the Coasts favour.

If anything, both the Suns and Titans come game days (at home) can have their supporter base outnumbered by the visiting teams supporters. For instance, the Titans can be outnumbered by Warriors, Rabbitohs etc come game day 'n the Suns (I'm lead to believe) can be outnumbered by Collingwood, Geelong etc come game day.

Those are just some obstacles that quickly come to mind. For what it's worth, I'm not really that keen into disecting the issues surrounding both teams on the Coast, and how to go about addressing them. Because I really don't know/follow that much about the Suns to give a fair comment. And with the Titans, we have enough issues to contend with a supporters level, without getting into another teams issues.. :(

Thanks for the effort mate. I guess it's hard for anyone to really establish themselves on the coast but both the Titans and Suns have done a reasonable job during their existence. Do you think more Victorians moving to the GC than New South Welshmen is a huge advantage for them going forward? We all know Vics are more willing to attend an event than NSWers so that has got to be a plus for the Suns, right? It's interesting to me that most Titans supporters that are taking this thread seriously will admit that the Suns are in a better position going forward.


Sometimes I just think this CoastSportsFan just posts about Titans in some attempt to gain trust and credibility to preach to us about the Suns.

I have never made a secret about the fact that I support both Gold Coast teams? I just don't understand the hate from so many RL supporters. You didn't have to read this thread and you didn't have to respond so it's not as if I'm jamming it down your throat.


It might have something to do about the Suns not having a Forum of their own. So ours might be the next best alternative. :D

I gotta admit, CoastSportsFan. Your question during our final home game earlier this year was a bizarre one. Most would ask about the score etc. But your 'left field' one, wanting to know about crowd numbers was quiet unique I thought. :laugh:

I asked about the crowd because I wanted to know how much the Bledisloe Cup affected the turnout. I can easily find the live scores online.

DIEHARD
22-09-13, 10:43 AM
I gotta admit, CoastSportsFan. Your question during our final home game earlier this year was a bizarre one. Most would ask about the score etc. But your 'left field' one, wanting to know about crowd numbers was quite unique I thought. :laugh:


http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_leut89oTFl1qf8yek.gif

Titanic
02-10-13, 01:41 PM
Gee, why do we entertain such drivel?