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GCT_89
20-01-09, 10:36 AM
Australia - The Right to Leave

After Sydney not wanting to offend other cultures by putting up Xmas lights.
After hearing that the State of South Australia changed its opinion and let a Muslim woman have her picture on her driver's license with her face covered.

This prompted this editorial written by an Australian citizen. Published in an Australian newspaper.
Quote:

IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It! I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.

However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the 'politically correct' crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Australia.

However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand.

This idea of Australia being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle.

This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.

We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, Learn the language!

'In God We Trust' is our National Motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you
consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.
If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like 'A Fair Go', then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet.
We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from.

This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this.

But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our National Motto, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom,

'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE!

If you aren't happy here then move on! We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted. Pretty easy really, when you think about it.


Interesting..........now discuss

kwigibo
20-01-09, 01:01 PM
Xenophobic and misinformed and very loosely veiled bigotry. "In God We Trust" is not our national motto among the many incorrect assertions and weak strawman arguments in this juvenile attack on the perceived evils of cultural tolerance and flexibility.

I don't find it the least bit interesting, only disturbing and unfortunate that sentiments like these* are sincerely held by many of my fellow Australians.

*(but as Diehard points out below, surely not exactly like these)

DIEHARD
20-01-09, 01:20 PM
Sounds like some American chain letter with some words altered.

The In God We Trust part and the bit about other languages, Spanish is the first mentioned. Which is widely spoken in the USA but hardly here.

kwigibo
20-01-09, 01:34 PM
Sounds like some American chain letter with some words altered.

The In God We Trust part and the bit about other languages, Spanish is the first mentioned. Which is widely spoken in the USA but hardly here.

My suspicion as well. Southern Cross seems shoehorned in, doesn't it, how can a constellation offend any mentally sound person? We don't have a pledge either. One irony is, the 'christian nation' spiel is very obviously a transplanted American sentiment that doesn't really fit Australia, but America has a very clear constitutional separation of Church and State where we unfortunately do not have any explicitly spelled out separation. So it's probably more technically correct in this form for which it was not originally intended even if it doesn't really make sense in a modern Australian cultural context. Still incredibly intolerant.

DIEHARD
20-01-09, 01:53 PM
One thing I really hate is how rednecks hijack the Southern Cross. It's sacred to me and it will be our national flag one day soon when we become a republic.

As usual the best answer lies in between two points. Yes everyone should learn English but more so for their own sake of social inclusion and a fair go at getting ahead in life.

Also I think so much of, well depending on the way you look at it, nearly all Australian culture has been off the back of immigrants.

Besides this is just a baseless chainletter.

http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusives/beamerican.html

GCT_89
20-01-09, 02:32 PM
awwwww..... come on guys, i just wanted to have some fun......

Ryan
20-01-09, 03:32 PM
awwwww..... come on guys, i just wanted to have some fun......
Want some tips?
I have a wealth of experience ;)

dee13
20-01-09, 04:29 PM
Before I start, I just want to say that I am in no way racist and I accept people on face value. I don't judge people on their race, religion, gender or colour.

I believe that, there are people out there who are not willing to integrate into our culture. Take for instance the Asian community in Sydneys South West region. Some of them have been here for over 30 years and they still do not speak our language. In the last few years the muslim community have begun to segregate and form their own societies. I believe that if you come to this country, you adapt to our cultures and way of life, you respect our laws, you do your best to learn our language and you respect our past, presant and our future. If you don't like any of the above then either shut up or piss off.

I ask you, Why do we have to take our Australian flags down if someone from another culture is offended by it.

Why does Santa Clause and Christmas decorations get excluded from our shopping centres because of someone not believing in Christmas and getting offended.

Why all of a sudden do we need segregated schools, when the government provided perfectly good education opportunities to every child in the country already.

If you look at the crime sprees in Sydney suburbia alone, I will guarantee the majority of these crimes are commited by someone with ethnic background. 3strikes you're out I reckon. I will gladly pay the airfares for a repeat offendeds and I will buy the rubber stamp that says "NEVER TO RETURN"

The sooner Australians grow some Kahunas and stop trying to be politically correct and develop a system whereby people moving to this country have to integrate, the sooner Australia will rebuild its identity.

I am a proud Australian. Im proud of our past. Im am proud that so many foreigners have come here, adopted our traditions and now proudly call themselves Aussies. But I will not tolerate people who come here and disobey our laws and try to change our way of life to suit themselves and then turn around and call us racist.

dee13
20-01-09, 04:30 PM
I may loose some votes over that post but Im not about to sit on the fence and tell you a whole pile of crap Im not sincere about.

Ryan
20-01-09, 04:54 PM
I may loose some votes over that post but Im not about to sit on the fence and tell you a whole pile of crap Im not sincere about.
Who gives a **** who you upset, I agree 100% with you.

If I had neighbours that complained about our flag, I'd paint one side of my house with the flag clours.

http://spiritland.com.au/BumperStickers/SL-BS0087%20Australia%20love%20it%20or%20leave%20it.j pg

Super Cronk
20-01-09, 04:55 PM
my two cents worth....there is no god.

and i totally agree with dee13!

i wont go to much into it...because my post would be removed if i really got going.

Steve
20-01-09, 04:56 PM
Chain letter aside, there is a real problem with this political correctness crap.

We hear more and more stories of schools and childcare centres not celebrating xmas or easter. Myers window display is no longer a nativity scene. Talk of banning "merry christmas" and using something less 'offensive' instead.

It's all a load of rubbish. I'm not christian, but I don't find it offensive, it's just what christmas is about. And while unlike America, we weren't founded by a bunch of crazy christians, we certainly do have christian roots and a good majority of Australians if not atheists or jedi, are christian.

If I went to Israel, Saudi Arabia, Nepal, India or anywhere else where the base population are of another religion, I'd hardly have any reason to complain about their holidays and traditions.
I have to say, the few people from other countries/cultures who live in Australia have absolutely no issue with our customs either. But as they say, the squeaky oil gets the wheel.

There's a reason people want to come to Australia to live. What concerns me is that all the things they want to leave behind, they drag it over with them.
There's many great things we can gain from other cultures, but the biggest concern is the bad stuff is being brought in too instead of being left behind. And then where will we be? We sure as hell won't be the country everyone wants to live in anymore.

I'm the son of an immigrant myself, and part of the deal was learning the language, getting a job, becoming a productive member of society.

Should immigrants have to learn English? Yes. It's the national language and to be able to communicate and be an active part of society it's nice to be able to speak the language.

Should they give up their culture? No. We can all be enriched by it, but old feuds should be left behind.

Should they accept the cultural and religious beliefs already in the country? Absolutely! It's these things which have contributed to making Australia the country they want to live in. It's like going to the Norman Hotel (the self proclaimed Australia's Worst Vegetarian Restaurant) and complaining that you're a vegan and there's nothing you can eat.
Don't like it? Just don't go.

Am I racist or xenophobic? No. I just think if you're going to decide to live in a country you should be accepting it for what it is, not trying to change it into the country you left behind.

kwigibo
20-01-09, 05:57 PM
Before I start, I just want to say that I am in no way racist and I accept people on face value. I don't judge people on their race, religion, gender or colour.

I believe that, there are people out there who are not willing to integrate into our culture. Take for instance the Asian community in Sydneys South West region. Some of them have been here for over 30 years and they still do not speak our language. In the last few years the muslim community have begun to segregate and form their own societies. I believe that if you come to this country, you adapt to our cultures and way of life, you respect our laws, you do your best to learn our language and you respect our past, presant and our future. If you don't like any of the above then either shut up or piss off.

I ask you, Why do we have to take our Australian flags down if someone from another culture is offended by it.

Why does Santa Clause and Christmas decorations get excluded from our shopping centres because of someone not believing in Christmas and getting offended.

Why all of a sudden do we need segregated schools, when the government provided perfectly good education opportunities to every child in the country already.

If you look at the crime sprees in Sydney suburbia alone, I will guarantee the majority of these crimes are commited by someone with ethnic background. 3strikes you're out I reckon. I will gladly pay the airfares for a repeat offendeds and I will buy the rubber stamp that says "NEVER TO RETURN"

The sooner Australians grow some Kahunas and stop trying to be politically correct and develop a system whereby people moving to this country have to integrate, the sooner Australia will rebuild its identity.

I am a proud Australian. Im proud of our past. Im am proud that so many foreigners have come here, adopted our traditions and now proudly call themselves Aussies. But I will not tolerate people who come here and disobey our laws and try to change our way of life to suit themselves and then turn around and call us racist.

I think there's as much in the history of this country not to be proud of as proud of. It seems you're for a fairly rigid conformity to some nebulous idea of anglo-saxon Australian tradition. If you don't already understand why some of us are not entirely comfortable with that, I'm not sure I can explain it. It has nothing to do with 'political correctness' (which is meaningless except as a pejorative used by those ostensibly opposed to it).

Put simply, none of us is perfect, and neither by any stretch of the imagination is our country or its history. We all have ideas of how things ought to be, mine are open to compromise because my democratic ideals insist that, within reason, my ideas about how our society should operate aren't any more or less valid than the next person's. Unless the way someone chooses to live their life in this country directly and/or significantly inhibits how you would like to live your life, I personally don't see how that could upset anyone. If certain subsets of the population are culturally insular, so what? As long as each individual's rights are not infringed and they freely choose to live a certain way, why should it bother anyone? It seems only certain ethnic groups are targeted here, but by the same logic, if this kind of thing bothers you, why not target mormons, or masons, or mensa, senior's associations, the liberal party, catholics?

As far as crime goes, all criminals have an ethnic background, unless they're cyborgs or replicants or something. And sure, people shouldn't break the law, assuming that law is just (again, I feel this country is at best imperfect, and so is its legal system). I'd like to see some data that suggests certain ethnic groups offend more than others, but even if that were the case it's unfair to blame that on some cultural or racial idiosyncrasy. It's not like they possess some ethnically specific moral failing that will be remedied by total cultural assimilation to whatever it is we define as 'true' Australian-ness. Minority ethnic and cultural groups, when marginalized by attitudes like that in the above editorial, combined with related socioeconomic difficulties may produce a higher proportion of criminal offenders. If the ABS or someone similar suggest that they do, again, the attitude in the editorial is not I believe the most productive or reasonable way to react to such a situation.

As for the more specific things, some are silly, some are valid, assess them as they come.

Xmas decorations in shopping centres is completely up to the management, if they feel it's in their interest to not appear to favour the religious traditions of some of their customers over others, that's their decision, it's private property, deal with it.

Public buildings should not display anything religious as far as I'm concerned, government should not have anything to do with religion, that's every person's private domain.

It's idiotic to have a drivers license photo with your face covered so that it's unrecognizable, you might as well not have a photo.

National flags and the like on public buildings or private property shouldn't bother anyone, and if it does, that person needs a hobby. If you start putting flags in other people's yards or sticking them in their backs or something, well that's trespassing and assault, and in principle I am against those things.

Schools, well, public schools should be the same for everyone. If, for example, Muslim communities wish to have religious specific instruction, then they can and should establish private institutions for that purpose. Religious law should never take precedence over national state or local law in my opinion, and that applies equally to all religions. If private Muslim schools submit to the same standards as other parochial schools, I don't have any real problems. I was made to wear my clothes a specific way and taught stupid bull**** at Catholic school, I don't see a difference. Really, I wish we didn't have any parochial schools and we had a national uniform high standard public education system, but I'm realistic and don't like to discriminate.

What else is a problem?

kwigibo
20-01-09, 06:12 PM
What else is a problem?

I really should say, what is the real problem, because none of these assimilation complaints really seem to matter to me. Other than crime, which I don't think is it's own thing that has nothing to do with this stuff, these are all incredibly trivial issues, some of which I suspect aren't even really occurring.

Boohoo, there's no tinsel out the front of Kmart, who in the hell does that hurt?

dee13
20-01-09, 06:29 PM
Lets get something straight. Im not in the least bit religious.

If I we were to go overseas, to a muslim country especially, and push our traditions or christianity on them, we would be jailed or worse. They would not tolerate us asking them to take down their flag. There is currently a man serving 3 years in jail for writing something about the Royal Family in Thailand.

Steve
20-01-09, 06:36 PM
I really should say, what is the real problem, because none of these assimilation complaints really seem to matter to me. Other than crime, which I don't think is it's own thing that has nothing to do with this stuff, these are all incredibly trivial issues, some of which I suspect aren't even really occurring.

Boohoo, there's no tinsel out the front of Kmart, who in the hell does that hurt?

I agree about crime. It should be dealt with as is, and if it's immigrants doing it they should be sent back, but other than that, it's irrelevant.

I don't believe in god, so I'm not really affected by whether or not there's tinsel out the front of Kmart, but why shouldn't there be?

I was talking to an online friend in Singapore about it. She couldn't understand why these changes are happening.

In a country with 63.9% christians, 18.7% no religion, 2.1% buddhists, 1.2% muslims, 0.7% hindu, 0.4% jewish inhabitants, we're effectively making changes that affect 64% of the population to appease what's very likely a small percentage of an already small percentage.

Singapore has 42.5% buddhism, 14.8 no religion, 14.6 christianity, 13.9 islam, 8.5 taoism, and a whole bunch of others, yet there's no issues. They just celebrate all these things and it's accepted. They have a day off for buddha's birthday, a day off for xmas and whatever else.

I actually wonder if this is the problem. Especially in schools where especially with girls, the cultural/religious clothing doesn't fit with school standards and they're told they can't wear it, so we get a tit for tat situation where they then complain about christian crosses and painting easter eggs and then the bleeding hearts go ape over it all.

Ideally if the populations grow enough we'd incorporate other religions and cultures holidays into ours. Now there's a great Australian tradition, any excuse for a day off work and a bbq.
As is though, we're talking 2% of the population or less. And while there's no public holidays, there's certainly no reason celebrations can't be held, but certainly no need for public holidays as yet. We already have the buddha birthday celebrations here in Brisbane, that's always fun to go to.

Definitely agree religion should be kept out of schools, unless it's a private school. Plenty of catholic schools, so I see no reason for not having muslim, jewish or whatever private schools. I don't know if religion is still taught in public schools, it was when I went. Bit of a waste of time too. One or two of the major denominations had teachers, and everyone else was just lumped into the one room with nothing to do for the period. There's always sunday school if parents really want their kids learning it.

kwigibo
20-01-09, 06:56 PM
I agree about crime. It should be dealt with as is, and if it's immigrants doing it they should be sent back, but other than that, it's irrelevant.

I don't believe in god, so I'm not really affected by whether or not there's tinsel out the front of Kmart, but why shouldn't there be?

.

If someone is not a citizen and commits a crime, deportation is definitely something to be done, but a naturalized immigrant, where do you draw the line?

Because if Kmart or whoever thinks they are best off trying to appeal equally to all potential customers, they are a private company and it's their prerogative. By the same token if they feel they'll do better business by pandering to some specific group, by all rights they are free to do that too. The police didn't come in jackboots and all to burn down a nativity scene, this is just the market adjusting, if you're offended by that, maybe you're a communist. Not that there's anything wrong with that either, unless you advocate political revolution I guess, then you guys might have something meaningful to get up in arms about.

Steve
20-01-09, 09:36 PM
Yes! I'm a communist! Just not a socialist. ;)

There's nothing democratic about pandering to less than 1% of the population at the expense of 60%.

It's not hard to accept everyone, and that goes for the minority of people who are forcing these changes.

kwigibo
20-01-09, 11:49 PM
Yes! I'm a communist! Just not a socialist. ;)

There's nothing democratic about pandering to less than 1% of the population at the expense of 60%.

It's not hard to accept everyone, and that goes for the minority of people who are forcing these changes.

Nobody's forcing anybody, it's a natural adaptation to the market place. There is no expense here, give me an example of something where there is a genuine expense or a minority group is forcing changes somewhere. I'm not denying that some vocal people argue for stupid allowances for certain things, usually given the undeserved national platform of some god awful current affairs program. But they're just idiots, and so are the media entities enabling them. In terms of real damage though, what have we lost, what of consequence has changed?

I still don't think Australia's perfect, but like most of the world it's as good as it's ever been from where I'm looking. We have more and freer access to information than ever, George Bush is unemployed in 4 hours time, scientific discovery advances every day, the Gold Coast has a great ****ing footy team, standard of living has never been better discounting this very recent economic downturn. This whole world doesn't have it as good as Oz, which is why we have this 'problem' I guess, but there are much fewer countries than not that are worse off now than any other point in recorded history in terms of individual quality of life.

There's still a long way up, yet we create nonsense like this to complain about? That's only going to stop us from getting even better.

~lee~
21-01-09, 03:01 AM
The four greatest words in the english language "I'm not racist, but..." :laugh:

Would you ever start a sentence off "I am racist, but..." :doh:

Learning a new countries language should always be a priority or else you'll forever live in a bubble to those around you. In saying that the english sure know how to make spain feel like england.

How does australian life continue on without tacky christmas lights at a supermarket?

Ryan
21-01-09, 06:41 AM
Nobody's forcing anybody, it's a natural adaptation to the market place. There is no expense here, give me an example of something where there is a genuine expense or a minority group is forcing changes somewhere. I'm not denying that some vocal people argue for stupid allowances for certain things, usually given the undeserved national platform of some god awful current affairs program. But they're just idiots, and so are the media entities enabling them. In terms of real damage though, what have we lost, what of consequence has changed?



How about the 'attempted' banning of the national flag at the Big Day Out a few years back - just because a few lebo's who got flogged with a good patriotic beating a few days earlier might be offended at the sight of the flag again.

Why is it that every gang rape\bashing\robberies are carried out by ethnic gangs. How can it not effect the majority of the population when they can't use the public beach or walk down to the servo for some milk after dark, because of a group of territorial half-casts are patrolling the streets? Because Australia tolerates it, nothing has been done about it, no example has been set. They walk in the courthouse cop a probation or a suspended sentence and they're off again, with no incentive to reform themselves.

White Australians do not form gangs, that culture derived from third world countries or undeveloped islands that lack security and infrastructure.

kwigibo
21-01-09, 12:12 PM
How about the 'attempted' banning of the national flag at the Big Day Out a few years back - just because a few lebo's who got flogged with a good patriotic beating a few days earlier might be offended at the sight of the flag again.

Why is it that every gang rape\bashing\robberies are carried out by ethnic gangs. How can it not effect the majority of the population when they can't use the public beach or walk down to the servo for some milk after dark, because of a group of territorial half-casts are patrolling the streets? Because Australia tolerates it, nothing has been done about it, no example has been set. They walk in the courthouse cop a probation or a suspended sentence and they're off again, with no incentive to reform themselves.

White Australians do not form gangs, that culture derived from third world countries or undeveloped islands that lack security and infrastructure.

Attempted is a key word there. The Big Day Out is also a privately run event, they can set whatever terms of entry they want, and that was clearly a case of grasping at straws trying to find something they could do to deter 'patriotic' violence.

'White' Australians most certainly do form gangs, they were the people leading that 'patriotic' beating. And just because you say so, it is not the least bit true that robberies or bashing is limited to any ethnicity. You mention beatings carried out against ethnic minorities by white gangs, you contradict yourself.

And why is it that gang rape is always committed by gangs (ethnic or not)? Why is it never just one guy by himself committing that crime?

This is just classic ingroup/outgroup bias. Humans have a seemingly innate tendency to filter information about those that are perceived to be like or unlike themselves. Those in the ingroup that do 'bad' things are seen as an exception, while those seen as different, the outgroup, that do 'bad' things are seen as indicative of their group. Likewise, 'good' actions are seen as the exception for the outgroup, and indicative of the whole for the ingroup.

All the difficulties I've experienced in my life that were not my own fault, have been caused by white people, including crime. Even so, I don't then conclude that white people, culturally or genetically or otherwise, are as a whole more predisposed to good or bad than other ethnicities. It would be prejudiced to do that with any group of people..

Vilifying large groups of people over the wrongly or rightly perceived shortcomings of individuals, who for whatever wholly arbitrary reason are included in said groups, is what's wrong with this country, in my opinion.

Ryan
21-01-09, 01:01 PM
Attempted is a key word there. The Big Day Out is also a privately run event, they can set whatever terms of entry they want, and that was clearly a case of grasping at straws trying to find something they could do to deter 'patriotic' violence.

'White' Australians most certainly do form gangs, they were the people leading that 'patriotic' beating. And just because you say so, it is not the least bit true that robberies or bashing is limited to any ethnicity. You mention beatings carried out against ethnic minorities by white gangs, you contradict yourself.

And why is it that gang rape is always committed by gangs (ethnic or not)? Why is it never just one guy by himself committing that crime?

This is just classic ingroup/outgroup bias. Humans have a seemingly innate tendency to filter information about those that are perceived to be like or unlike themselves. Those in the ingroup that do 'bad' things are seen as an exception, while those seen as different, the outgroup, that do 'bad' things are seen as indicative of their group. Likewise, 'good' actions are seen as the exception for the outgroup, and indicative of the whole for the ingroup.

All the difficulties I've experienced in my life that were not my own fault, have been caused by white people, including crime. Even so, I don't then conclude that white people, culturally or genetically or otherwise, are as a whole more predisposed to good or bad than other ethnicities. It would be prejudiced to do that with any group of people..

Vilifying large groups of people over the wrongly or rightly perceived shortcomings of individuals, who for whatever wholly arbitrary reason are included in said groups, is what's wrong with this country, in my opinion.


Those riots by the 'whites' were in retaliation to the latest of constant rapes and bashings brought on by the ethnic groups. Riots don't start over nothing, you can only put up with so much and when the legal system continues to fail theres not much other choice than to take the law into your own hands.

All the regional towns I've spent time with in Australia have only had problems with large ethnic gangs. I'm not saying white people don't commit crime, but if theres a gang related crime I'd lay my money out everytime thats it's an ethnic group.

Every public gathering I go to in the area Easter\New years\ect celebrations, it's a large enthic group bullying smaller groups that cause the cops to break up the party. Everytime!
Every so often you get a few whites who get sick of it and come back with 50 of there own mates, but in general the whites do not hang out in large groups.

Super Cronk
21-01-09, 03:22 PM
i have some friends who work in the John Maroney correctional centre here in sydney...i cant recall the exact percentage but well over 70% of the guys in there are asians/part of asian gangs....for drugs, rape and other gang type activity. Not saying that "white" australians or indiginous Australisn dont form gangs or behave like ********s...but IMO the majority is ethnic based.

i have personally notcied and seen alot of these ethnic groups (i live in the western suburb...so i know how bad it gets!) over the years grow larger and larger and show more and more disrespect for our country and its people.

Some reasons:

Alot of the younger hoodlum asians come here to do their drug dealings because if they are caught in their country they go to jail for life. The same also goes for the "middle easterners" they show total disrespect for women and our country.....they bash our lifeguards and still expect to use our beach without coping something back? It isnt just here in Australia either...ask some of our pommy mates what the biggest problem is over there in regards to foriegners...its these pakistani terriosts who go there to blow people up in the name of the Qur'an...

Australia is easy and cheap to get into for these people and our laws are **** house...


99.9% of the worlds problems is caused because of religion....can you believe that? over a fictional character!!!

dee13
21-01-09, 04:36 PM
I have a simple answer. The government need to excercise ZERO TOLERANCE and introduce Deportation. Get rid of the problems and maybe then we will be able to see the benefits of having a multicultural society such as ours.

Ryan
21-01-09, 04:42 PM
These demographics are 10yrs old, but as you can see the Lebo's, Turks and Kiwis have always outnumbered the Aussies jail population rates.

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o142/RD012/Image2-1.jpg


Source: (http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/ethnicity-crime/)

Ethnicity and crime: an Australian research study
Satyanshu Mukherjee
Canberra: Australian Institute of Criminology, 1999

A report prepared for the Department of Immigration and Multicultural Affairs

dee13
21-01-09, 04:49 PM
These demographics are 10yrs old, but as you can see the Lebo's, Turks and Kiwis have always outnumbered the Aussies jail population rates.

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o142/RD012/Image2-1.jpg


Source: (http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/ethnicity-crime/)

Ethnicity and crime: an Australian research study
Satyanshu Mukherjee
Canberra: Australian Institute of Criminology, 1999

A report prepared for the Department of Immigration and Multicultural Affairs


Nice work Rysey. Kwigibo must have ripped that page out of his outdated uni books.:D

Ryan
21-01-09, 04:53 PM
And why is it that gang rape is always committed by gangs (ethnic or not)?
Why is it never just one guy by himself committing that crime?

Are you drunk? :duh2:

If rape is commited by a gang - it's gang rape.
If rape is commited by one guy - I think they just call it rape, because there is no gang.........

dee13
21-01-09, 05:17 PM
Are you drunk? :duh2:

If rape is commited by a gang - it's gang rape.
If rape is commited by one guy - I think they just call it rape, because there is no gang.........

Guys like you and I Rysey are educated in the school of hard knocks. Some people just don't understand or comprehend what happened in the race riots a few years ago because they were broght up reading about life and not living it. The people who learn about life by reading about it, more than likely are not getting the full picture. I've never read any Uni books and you can bet your last dollar, I never will because those thing are usually written by politacally correct morons who also learned about life by reading about it.

Kwigibo... go live in the South West of Sydney for...... lets say a month. I bet your tone changes once you have actually lived outside of a uni book.

GCT_89
22-01-09, 10:11 AM
this turned out much better than i thought.....although i did need a dictionary for most of what kwigibo said........lol

was at the QLD Roar game last sat night against sydney.....

there were about 10 lebanese lads in front of us at the start.....the cops led them out with there hands behind there backs by half-time.....you should have heard the racist crap that was coming outta their mouths....

TITAN PETE
22-01-09, 11:16 AM
go live in the South West of Sydney for...... lets say a month. I bet your tone changes once you have actually lived outside of a uni book.

Spot on Dee , if u have lived their then u do have a better understanding about the place & we have friends who had a 14 yr daughter raped by a "Mediterranean" gang but the case never made it to court & i'm sure there are plenty of case's like this.

I was a "Westy" & the Vermin u speak of is the reason i left there (13 yrs ago) as i'm not 1 to walk away from a Blue with big mouths (usually Leb's & Viet's) but when my daughter came along i realised it was time to get out before there could be any drama's & before anyone accuses me being a racist my wife is 50% Lebanese .

kwigibo
22-01-09, 12:53 PM
These demographics are 10yrs old, but as you can see the Lebo's, Turks and Kiwis have always outnumbered the Aussies jail population rates.

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o142/RD012/Image2-1.jpg


Source: (http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/ethnicity-crime/)

Ethnicity and crime: an Australian research study
Satyanshu Mukherjee
Canberra: Australian Institute of Criminology, 1999

A report prepared for the Department of Immigration and Multicultural Affairs

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/ethnicity-crime/ethnic-ch4.pdf

If you actually looked closely at the data in your source, you'd see that australian born offenders overwhelmingly outnumber those born of any of the other nationalities of birth by at least 30 to 1. That's doesn't mean much, there are just overwhelmingly more australians by birth in this country than other groups, the thing is, you can't deport these people. There are mostly Victorian statistics in there, so they won't necessarily reflect the country as a whole, but they're indicative enough.

In those statistics, British born offenders are almost always in the top 3 by totals. Offense and imprisonment rates are specious when comparing 100,000 Australian offenders to say 3000 Vietnamese or 2000 UK born offenders, but even so, the highest rate of offending seems to be Yugoslavian and Russian immigrants (Cold War Communist states were notorious for encouraging their less 'desirable' citizens to emigrate, that may explain it).

And they summarise


The point that has been emphasised throughout the chapter is that for
most migrant groups their arrest and imprisonment rates are lower than that of
their Australian-born counterparts. Over the five year period arrest rate of no
migrant group show a consistently increasing trend. Data also show that
migrant groups who display higher arrest and imprisonment rate than the
Australian-born come from different regions of the world.

That seems to me to say that crime and ethnicity are not related in a way that can be helped by aggressive assimilation, if they are much related at all. I'm not totally against assimilation, I like this country and I want migrants to like it too, I don't want to make it any harder for people to coexist here by promoting this kind of discord. By all means, prosecute criminals, if they are not citizens deport them when necessary, but don't demean whole cultural and ethnic groups because you've seen anti-social behaviour from some people within those groups. And don't tell me that the culturally 'Australian' are any more above the same behaviour, because they aren't, the stats don't say so even if your gut does.

DIEHARD
22-01-09, 01:06 PM
Thread closed. It's run it's course. Appreciate that I left it open for so long.

This sort of discussion, sweeping statements and attacks aren't healthy for the forum or our users. There are plenty of other places on the net that would welcome it.